Things that say "I'm not really a professional"

[Doug Nelson]

1. Using gmail or yahoo or any other email domain besides your own. Pros spend the $5/year on their own domain.
2. Using myspace or any other website domain besides your own. See #1, plus pros are proud of their work and want to control how it's seen.
3. Beautiful examples on an ugly/amateurish website or one that is an obvious template
4. Ugly examples on a beautiful website
5. No contact method besides email. Pros have phone numbers and mailing addresses and aren't afraid/embarrassed to share them
6. "Contact me for more details". Pros know that most potential customers will simply browse away if there's anything not clearly and completely explained
7. Only one or two examples of your work
8. Ridiculous levels of copyright protection. Pros know the law, and that javascript tricks and stealth techniques won't protect you any more than a simple line of text.

Feel free to add your own.

[MatthewMarshall]

I agree with you on 8, nothing is more annoying then a water mark over the images

[smak]

Google Adsense on opening page or on galleries. A lot of advertising in general. Ads unrelated to photography or design.

A site that claims artistic merit, style etc. but looks like it was built in 1995 - large text (looks like the Reader's Digest large-type edition) and large "clunky", beveled buttons, New Times Roman font. "Under construction" signs. E-mail link icon that looks like a cartoon mail box. Animated gifs. Tables with thick beveled borders.
Any spelling or grammar errors.

[DannyRaphael]

Definitely agree with this...

Originally Posted by smak

Any spelling or grammar errors.

My .02:
* Broken links anywhere within the site
* A very short list of references
* Only one entry on the "satisfied clients" list
* Even with a decent domain name, a non-professional looking contact e-mail name like GameDudeWithAttitude@pro-photo.com would raise an immediate flag
* Slideshow that changes images way too quickly
* Ridiculously low prices

[Doug Nelson]

I like Danny's email suggestion.

Any more?

[KR1156]

#1 thing that says to me that you're not a professional is the type of imagery you work on. I can look at 1 piece and tell if you're just putzing around.

[JD Spears]

This page under construction!

[Doug Nelson]

Originally Posted by JD Spears

This page under construction!

That's a good one. I'll add the even more egregious offenses of transition effects, music, animated gifs, and guestbooks. "Last updated xx/xx/xxxx" is possibly not quite as bad, unless it's from a year ago.

Paradoxically, I tend to rate flash sites as more professional (but not less irritating)

More subtle, but I've still seen it and abandoned any thought that they were professional is mixing private and professional sites (ie: family, pet and vacation pictures, etc.)

[Doug Nelson]

And just so this isn't all about websites:

No business card, or business card with no web, email, and phone details (all 3)
No takeaway literature, or it's just laserjet output
Portfolio is a folder of loose samples
Coy about pricing (I hate that so much)
No recognitions to brag about (if nothing else, win a contest here, that's why I started them)

And this one is kind of in-between:
No website

[Vernon]

Possible candidate: not offering downloadable "e-brochures"/sample portfolios
Lacking a better business bureau affiliation (for those that are state-side, anyway) logo.
No associations noted/listed (i.e.: Photographers of America, Inc., et al)
"In Business since 19.." and it's posted on a 1 or 2 page web site.
The thumbnails are the actual 3 megabyte images
All the sample photos are of the photographer's family members

[zganie]

OK,you guys are right .But instead of saying what not to do how about positive feedback on what to do.I asked in another post for an outline I dont do retouching but thought it was a good question because I see people asking bits and pices of this all the time

[flice]

Coming to RetouchPro and exerting oneself through writing what constitutes a pro.

A pro doesn't care about what others do and why. He knows that the only one he should be comparing himself to is himself and his latest job.
If you measure your "pro-ness" by amateurs you're only one step up the ladder...

[JD Spears]

Originally Posted by flice

Coming to RetouchPro and exerting oneself through writing what constitutes a pro.

A pro doesn't care about what others do and why. He knows that the only one he should be comparing himself to is himself and his latest job.
If you measure your "pro-ness" by amateurs you're only one step up the ladder...

Respectfully, I disagree. I think this is an excellent ideal for a thread. So much so I even have it bookmarked. If not for this site I would have a very inflated opinion of my skills. The best way to climb a latter is one step at a time.

[Mike]

Originally Posted by Vernon

Lacking a better business bureau affiliation (for those that are state-side, anyway) logo.
No associations noted/listed (i.e.: Photographers of America, Inc., et al)

I would take issue with these two items. On the last one, I never meet a customer that had any idea of what "PPA" (Professional Photographers of America) was or had they ever heard of it. In 25 years of owning and running my studio I think I may have been asked 2 or 3 times if I was a member of any type of professional organization.

As far as the BBB, they are nothing more than another for profit business with a very good advertising campaign. They where very expensive to join and very heavy handed in their dealings with other business's. My (and other business's in my area) experiences with them would fill a book. Its much better to run your business in a way that precludes any one from having to think about relying on the BBB.

[Dave.Cox]

Spelling and grammar errors! I know it seems like a small thing, but spelling an grammar errors just seem to jump off the page.

[Mchilly]

If you've been copying 99% website content and images from a professional website that really is the stupid thing to do... unfortunately someone did that with our site... up until now they deleted the images but then the content is still the same

[MissLihs]

I set my site up with livebooks, I think it looks good but that's just my opinion. If any pros out there wouldn't mind taking a second to look it over and giving advise Id be very appreciative. I also don't advertise that I re-touch but want to let people know I do it, should I make another site or just add a portfolio?

Thanks!
www.AlexLihs.com

[plugsnpixels]

Originally Posted by Doug Nelson

Paradoxically, I tend to rate flash sites as more professional (but not less irritating)

While I agree that Flash has great potential, it's very rarely used effectively! It offers designers the means of creating byzantine navigation and show-off effects that merely frustrate the visitor via long load times and an overall difficult browsing experience.

I wonder how many photographers actually design their own Flash sites?

This is a non-photographer site, but The Beatles website is an example of maddening brilliance. Most of the time there you will be trying to figure out what you're supposed to do. And the cool stuff is teeny-tiny; you can't enlarge it--unless you somehow download and view it from your hard drive.

[plugsnpixels]

Alexandra, your site is a minor example of what I was referring to--specifically, the area where the thumbnails pop out is a bit hit-or-miss (hide and seek). Unless you hit it just right, it keeps disappearing, making navigation of your images frustrating.

This has nothing to do with your photo work, BTW!

I wanted to learn more about liveBooks (I assume you're using their template), but the "liveBooks.edu" link does nothing (except take you back to your own main page).

[MissLihs]

I do agree about the thumbnail problem. When you have a "pro" site they give way more options and its easier to navigate around the page. If you go to Livebooks.com you'll be able to find more info about it all.

So far their templates and design is the most professional I have seen, its pretty much idiot proof.
I'd like to hear what other people are using.

[TommyO]

Originally Posted by flice

Coming to RetouchPro and exerting oneself through writing what constitutes a pro.

A pro doesn't care about what others do and why. He knows that the only one he should be comparing himself to is himself and his latest job.
If you measure your "pro-ness" by amateurs you're only one step up the ladder...

Unfortunately, you may be assuming too much about the type of people that use this forum. Yes, very busy pro's may not have time for this. However, we retired pro's enjoy it quite a bit. I thoroughly enjoy lending assistance to those just starting out and willing to learn. I think that is the essence of many of the sub-forums here at RetouchPro. After 25 years of "comparing myself to myself and my latest job", I'm tired of that. Hopefully, the newbies can learn and remain enthusiastic until they too are so busy they don't have time for RetouchPro. In the mean time, you are welcome to put down your camera and stylus and come visit me sometime in St. John (USVI). It's much more fun than "not caring about what others do and why".

Cheers !

[Cryspatus]

I think you're right about all of this. If you are good at retouching you think you would have a basic understanding of good web design. The most important part of web design in my opinion is making it usable to everyone. The font should be readable, links in the text should always be blue, and there should always be a menu and a link to the home page at the top. I would also advise against auto-playing music and black backgrounds. A lot of people have trouble reading white text on black backgrounds.

[Markzebra]

There are some highly professional London retouchers sites, who honestly do have poorly designed amateurish websites. Sometimes quite good retouchers have the arrogance to think that they are web designers too. Its a very different discipline with a raft of completely different knowledge required, and really best left to the experts.

[zganie]

I guess there are a lot of things that say if your proffesional or not,but people still make money
Also as in everything when your starting out you make mistakes its the learning process
One thing most marketing people say is not to use flash and keep your website simple,but people still use it
I think most of us are still trying to see what works and what does not
zganie

[Markzebra]

I think there's good Flash and bad Flash

[jagerman]

I used livebooks too. Updating it is easy and the cost is low. But, the design is a little limited for a great retoucher site, no roll over gifs etc... In the last year there has been a bunch of new companies doing the same kid of thing with better designs. Just look around and you will find them.

www.AlexLihs.com you should really upgrade from the edu site.

-W

[MissLihs]

I started my site when I was in school and it only cost $100. I'm not sure how much it costs to upgrade, but they have some sort of plan, if I find something else better I'll switch, but its just Sooo easy to navigate, and its really all I need for now.

www.AlexLihs.com

[Quantum3Studio]

Originally Posted by flice

Coming to RetouchPro and exerting oneself through writing what constitutes a pro.

A pro doesn't care about what others do and why. He knows that the only one he should be comparing himself to is himself and his latest job.
If you measure your "pro-ness" by amateurs you're only one step up the ladder...

Great point!

[Paul Cooper]

It s all about the pictures really...

[Steve Conway]

Much good food for thought here.......I particularly agree with the thoughts on bad grammer & spelling. That is the number one thing I notice in posts of any kind.

I would only add this to the mix. Remember, a "professional" is just one who does what they do and gets paid for it. This does not necessarily mean that they are good at what they do.

Steve C.