Outsourcing Retouching Services To India?

[SteveB2005]

Originally Posted by Benny Profane

Personally, I wouldn't expect a photographer to fully understand or even know UCR, unless he/she is educated in or has worked in pre press.

Not sure what UCR means, probably something obvious. Can you fill us in?

thanks

[mayday]

Originally Posted by SteveB2005

Not sure what UCR means, probably something obvious. Can you fill us in?

thanks

I think it must be a Jimi Hendrix song!

[pixelzombie]

Originally Posted by Benny Profane

Personally, I wouldn't expect a photographer to fully understand or even know UCR, unless he/she is educated in or has worked in pre press.

i only expect schooled photogs to know what it is, i don't expect them to understand it..what on earth do they learn for 4 years?

[mayday]

under color removal is when you take out CMY & replace it with black to reduce your ink limit. Best used on images that are more mono in feel when you don't want colour to shift on press causing a cast.

[pixelzombie]

Originally Posted by SteveB2005

Not sure what UCR means, probably something obvious. Can you fill us in?

thanks

here's a quick reference:

http://www.photoshopfocus.com/cool_t..._basics_p4.htm

http://www.nationmaster.com/encyclop...-color-removal

[Benny Profane]

Originally Posted by pixelzombie

i only expect schooled photogs to know what it is, i don't expect them to understand it..what on earth do they learn for 4 years?

You've been around pre press too long. I'm sure it's discussed in their schools at one point, but it's probably put into the same section in the brain that you and I put calculus or 17th century poetry.
I'm guessing most photographers are self educated, anyway. Look how they treat our little profession. Like that guy who placed the ad for jewelery retouching here and expected quality for, what, 2 minutes a pic..........
Bunch of pretty boy glamour dummies

[Peez]

Here's why I am so special: my customers (a few for 10 or so years) say "do the usual for the flesh tones/wrinkles" and I do it. They save money on multiple rounds of corrections and proofs because I understand them. And not for nothing, but because I speak English real good? They understand me, too. Sometimes clients value partnership (though I've probably just jinxed it).

[pixelzombie]

Originally Posted by mayday

under color removal is when you take out CMY & replace it with black to reduce your ink limit. Best used on images that are more mono in feel when you don't want colour to shift on press causing a cast.

it's used on all images that go to press, unless of course you prefer to use GCR...

[mayday]

Originally Posted by pixelzombie

it's used on all images that go to press, unless of course you prefer to use GCR...

Yea your right. GCR on heavy or Maximum is used more on mono feel images to stop colour casts.

[BodegaGo]

if only to further derail the thread:

doesn't all the UCR and GCR thing become obsolete, since we're now mostly retouching in RGB, and then converting CMYK to print?

[mayday]

That depends on if you intend to go to press with your image

[pixiecho]

A book that might be enlightening regarding our current economic situation is 'The Shock Doctrine, the Rise of Disaster Capitalism' by Naomi Klein.

[pixelzombie]

Originally Posted by BodegaGo

if only to further derail the thread:

doesn't all the UCR and GCR thing become obsolete, since we're now mostly retouching in RGB, and then converting CMYK to print?

whenever you convert to cmyk you are applying some either ucr or gcr unless you are outputting your Dmax at 400%...

[Photo Grafix]

I don't believe I saw any posts about the rising value of Asian currencies against the dollar (or the sinking dollar to the Asian currencies). I have a client that has moved printing from Asia to the United States because of the currency changes (along with other rising costs). This is an opportunity for us if we stay alert. I had another clients that was wringing his hands over the Rupee's rise against the dollar. He started doing more programming in house! Have you (in the US) considered asking folks in the European Union to outsource retouching to you?

The people of India deserve to experience wealth (and the destruction of their environment if they don't stay on top of it). It's Asia's turn to rise in world prominence. So we are going to need to learn to work more with less. Despite the markets right now, they are going to be the big boys within the next 25-50 years.

As a US-based full-time self-employed retoucher since 1999, here's some points I have realized:

1. Photo restoration is hardly worth one's time because of the outsourcing. Unless you can do it fast and/or specialize in a specific style, be prepared to give up making lots of money doing it yourself. Outsource or quit.

2. Commercial retouching (Business to business with ad agencies, photographers and publishers) is where a US provider has a good chance. However, you MUST be prepared to average no more than $35/hour, be proactive with your customers and do everything they ask 100%. Staying in touch via phone and email on a regular basis is critical. Ask them to complete a survey after each project and then give them a discount on their next invoice if they complete it.

3. Be flexible and innovative: Find niche markets and specialize. You've got to stand out without compromising yourself.

4. Organize. I see some posts alluding to a retoucher's "guild." and a set of standards. We might even be able to get an ISO guideline for all the nuances like GCR, UCR and plate blending, ethical guidelines, etc. APAG (http://www.apag.net/) has attempted to do something like this, but they need more participation (and possibly a modification of their mission to include prepress along with better alliances with publishers and folks like NAPP).

5. Keep marketing. Sales, sales, sales.

[Benny Profane]

A little Warren Buffett wisdom for tough times:

"In his letter to shareholders in March, 2005, Warren Buffet predicted that in another 10 years’ time the net ownership of the US by outsiders would amount to $11 trillion. “Americans … would chafe at the idea of perpetually paying tribute to their creditors and owners abroad. A country that is now aspiring to an ‘ownership society’ will not find happiness in - and I’ll use hyperbole here for emphasis - a ’sharecropper’s society’.”"

He predicted this little implosion going on right now in '02 by calling derivatives "financial weapons of mass destruction", so, listen up. He ain't the richest guy in the world for nuthin'.

[zganie]

Unfortunately there will always be outsourcing to cheap labor and we are all guilty of using it in some form ,like buying things made in china because its cheaper and we can save some money
but it takes jobs from here or somewhere So like Benny said its the way it is
just my opinion
zganie

[Quantum3Studio]

The only things that cannot be outsoruced are: 1) materials 2) skills.

For point one, retouchers could become photographers, for number 2, retouchers could become some kind of Scott Kelby, you know XD

Not bragging, but I'm a retoucher from Argentina and I'm selected by buyers between 400 retouchers all over the world, just 2 times and going with the same clients for long time... 1 from the US an the other from the U.K.

The question is: how much can be outsorced?
The answer is scary: there are tons of chinesses and indians!

So well... Life's cost in Argentina are much more than in India or China, so I will be smoked too.
However mates, reputation, personality, style, skills and confidence is something that a factory cannot process. Factories are factories, we're individuals and we will finish working for individuals.

Just to keep in mind, a quote I will try to translate: "Fame means that everybody knows you, prestige, just the ones who cares"

Go for prestige!

PS: I live in a third world country, and I kick asses...

[Quantum3Studio]

Originally Posted by zganie

Unfortunately there will always be outsourcing to cheap labor and we are all guilty of using it in some form ,like buying things made in china because its cheaper and we can save some money
but it takes jobs from here or somewhere So like Benny said its the way it is
just my opinion
zganie

Absolutely right... I'm proud my camera is made in Japan =D

[Quantum3Studio]

Originally Posted by Benny Profane

You've been around pre press too long. I'm sure it's discussed in their schools at one point, but it's probably put into the same section in the brain that you and I put calculus or 17th century poetry.
I'm guessing most photographers are self educated, anyway. Look how they treat our little profession. Like that guy who placed the ad for jewelery retouching here and expected quality for, what, 2 minutes a pic..........
Bunch of pretty boy glamour dummies

Some enterprises outsource overseas, others do another much more intelligent way to outsource.

I live in Argentina and nowadays you can see a lot of studios from Spain and USA stablished in Argentina. They just grab some people from here, train them and all the material goes to their respective countries in a snap.

[Quantum3Studio]

Originally Posted by pixelzombie

here's a quick reference:

http://www.photoshopfocus.com/cool_t..._basics_p4.htm

http://www.nationmaster.com/encyclop...-color-removal

Something related to plates?

[twopoint0]

Originally Posted by endlesssummer

does anybody know overseas retouching companies? i´d like to check the quality

endless-

I'm familiar with GSL Graphic Solutions http://gslusa.com/. Their deal is that the Thailand facility is managed by US and Euro prepress pro's. They train the locals right out of college- before they learn bad retouching habits. The company is run as professionally as any I know of.

[twopoint0]

Originally Posted by mayday

under color removal is when you take out CMY & replace it with black to reduce your ink limit. Best used on images that are more mono in feel when you don't want colour to shift on press causing a cast.

That's GCR. UCR is almost the same thing, except the replacement is limited to dark neutral colors.

By the way, this is the sort of thing that "color retouchers" deal with every day- to get the best possible reproduction on commercial presses and web ROB ads. Which is why it's generally not a good idea to have your photographer (or a lot of creative retouchers, for that matter), retouch/prepare ads for print. But that's a whole 'nuther thread. (OK, everybody get pissed now)

[Quantum3Studio]

Originally Posted by endlesssummer

does anybody know overseas retouching companies? i´d like to check the quality

I have seen many examples provided by people from India, and the 90% really sucks, however, that 90% goes to India. Also, most Indians don't speak English well enough. I have a couple of clients from USA and UK and they are very grateful that I'm able to write/speak English quite well.

A regular Indian says, for example "Can be done, see private message for detail". That's the most common one, but, when describing the job I cannot get a word. There are not connectors between words, tehre are lot of gramatical erros and sentences has no sense in most of the cases.

What they usually do is literally horrible, not only by lacking on the skills, also tasteless.

In Argentina is even worst, the same workers from the supermarket use to take the pictures of products for the brochures... You can see the vapor lamps reflected in the shinny products! A total WB mess...

[rajaparul1]

hi
This world is new for me so it will be hurry to say anything about this.

[seetumail]

If you are like most Internet marketers you often find yourself wearing a variety of hats. Those involved in the industry of Internet marketing are a hard working breed by nature and are typically not afraid to roll up their sleeves and become involved in all aspects of their marketing campaign. From brainstorming to develop a niche to designing aesthetically appealing and well optimized websites and from writing scintillating website content and intriguing press releases to remaining active on industry message boards, Internet marketers do it all. However, problems arise as the individuals become more successful. Their niche markets begin to thrive and increase in number and completing all of these different tasks for several different niches is no longer feasible. This is when it is important to know what aspects to outsource to other qualified individuals. This article will take a look at outsourcing both copywriting and website design.

eliza

outsourcing uk jobs

[catherine k]

I think the rate overall is coming down, unless one has top notch clients, like automobiles and Chanel, those rates stay up, but for everyone in the middle and lower end we don't have a choice but to lower our rate. Jewelry retouching which is what I do, is something that's so specific, that perhaps being an artist and treating it as doing a painting helps, that kind of attitude would reflect in your work and make you stand out.

[plugsnpixels]

I think the only thing that could reverse this trend is when the overseas workers wake up and start demanding more for their services. Can they work this cheaply forever? Then the backlash will be a reversal of the outflow to using local workers instead, as someone mentioned many posts earlier.

[aartist]

Well, Bush W. didn't want us buying cheaper priced prescription drugs through Canadian Mail Order because we needed to insure the drugs were properly made and research was properly funded here in the united states. Come to find out most of the drug ingredients come from, yes, you guessed it, CHINA. Goes to show, some industries still control prices in spite of globalization and have the Government's backing.

[Quantum3Studio]

Indeed, I'm quite affraid China will rule the world, or may be that already begun. The fights between big countries never stopped and considering how have grew the size of the China Imperium and economy, I think we're dead. From balloons to high tech... China provides all the stuff...

[tmcbride]

Originally Posted by pixelzombie

i only expect schooled photogs to know what it is, i don't expect them to understand it..what on earth do they learn for 4 years?

Pixelzombie, I went to a 4 year school, studied photography, and I'm prepared to give you a rundown of what the experience entails. I happen to have worked in prepress during the summers, so, I'm qualified to discuss what 4 year schools don't entail, too.

At the higher-end schools, those with elite, i.e. selective, reputations, theory is stressed over technique. For example, every year great photographers with compelling portfolios come out of Yale's program well versed in Jean Baudrillard's notion of simulacra but not being able to read the histogram on their digital cameras. I don't think I've ever met a photographer from an elite school who had all that much to say about technique, yet, it's their pics dominating in the museums, galleries and magazines.

Pixelzombie, do you know the difference between simulacra and simulacrum? If so, you might qualify for an editorial spread or a gallery show!

Now, for discussing those details of prepress that were absolutely unavailable to us in 4 year BFA programs: You can get a buzz from chewing on balls of certain old fashioned transparent tapes; a lot of prepress and press guys are bitter alcoholics.