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Outsourcing Retouching Services To India?

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  #71  
Old 10-07-2009, 02:45 PM
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aartist aartist is offline
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Re: Outsourcing Retouching Services To India?

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Originally Posted by designcafe View Post
I am an Indian. <snip> This is a globalized world guys.If you want the rest of the world to drink your coke you must also be prepared for competition from other countries. <snip>
Glad that you don't live in India.We had a hard time getting arrogant people like you out of our country and please stay out.
You sound very ungrateful for getting these off shored Jobs from developed countries. Jobs that were developed over the past 50 to 100 years or so through the hard work and dedication of working people found in North America, Europe and South America. The very same people the jobs were off-shored from.

I could care less if you buy or drink Coke. Keeping the jobs where they were born, created and evolved in would be a better deal than selling India Coke.

Sorry you feel the need to keep certain people out of your country. Wish you felt the same way about these certain people's jobs that have been given to your country and taken from them. "Keep those people out but let their jobs in." must be your motto.
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  #72  
Old 10-07-2009, 02:51 PM
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Markzebra Markzebra is offline
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Re: Outsourcing Retouching Services To India?

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Originally Posted by designcafe View Post
The game IS FAIR. They charge that but they live in India! ////
Glad that you don't live in India.We had a hard time getting arrogant people like you out of our country and please stay out.And for the one who said The English of Indians is very bad.That is true in some cases but please do remember that English is a secondary language in India.So much for the American English.This editor shows a spelling error when i type 'globalised' or 'colour'.
You'll find that there are two spellings of those words - the original English spelling, and the American simplification. The substitution of z into everything. I think the word Color is originally Latin, without a U - although the source for the American word is still the UK 'Colour'. We had an empire once you know ;-) and look where that got us.

As you say its a mostly free market out there (unless of course you take into account people who work now, effectively as Public Servants in the Banking and Financial industries). Your point is fair, and your local soft drinks probably employed more people than Retouching does at present.

Last edited by Markzebra; 10-07-2009 at 05:46 PM.
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  #73  
Old 10-07-2009, 04:03 PM
jerome65 jerome65 is offline
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Re: Outsourcing Retouching Services To India?

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Originally Posted by designcafe View Post
I am an Indian.I was really shocked after reading all the posts in this thread.This is a globalized world guys.If you want the rest of the world to drink your coke you must also be prepared for competition from other countries.I used the coke example because it led to the closure of many local soft drinks which were once popular.So let the best one survive.Let the consumer choose what he wants.

///I don't agree.... move to India if you think they have it so good. lol

The game IS FAIR. They charge that but they live in India! ////
Glad that you don't live in India.We had a hard time getting arrogant people like you out of our country and please stay out.And for the one who said The English of Indians is very bad.That is true in some cases but please do remember that English is a secondary language in India.So much for the American English.This editor shows a spelling error when i type 'globalised' or 'colour'.
The difference is that when Coke or Pepsi moves into a country they bring the build their bottling and distribution system in that country which employes people in that country. They also sell their products at a price that the market allow, if not they would not be competitive in that market and would not have been able to dominate it.

With outsourcing jobs like photo retouching, graphic production, design, programing, etc. is that the companies that are selling the service have no presence in the U.S. and thus provide no value to the economy other than draining it of wealth and eliminating jobs. The Indian companies are not concerned with the "local" market value of the service, and due to the lower cost of living in the country are able to provide those services at prices which we in the U.S. cannot compete with due to the cost of living here in the U.S.

The greater issue here is corporate responsibility to the country and community which they operate in and how their decisions today will effect their consumer base tomorrow. The more jobs that are outsourced the fewer consumers there and those that are around will have a less disposable income to purchase the products or services these companies offer.

What we, as designers/photographers/artist/etc. have to offer over the companies in India is an innate understanding of the culture and cultural sensitivities that exist here and a clearer level of communication. With the more conceptual work will hopefully stay here.
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  #74  
Old 10-08-2009, 02:53 AM
designcafe designcafe is offline
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Re: Outsourcing Retouching Services To India?

Guys I am sorry i said certain things.I really didn't mean it.When one says something bad about my country my pride is hurt.So i said things i shouldn't have and i take it back.Please think before you say something about people from other countries.The games changes with time and there is a chance you might be on the other side someday.
I know how it feels when my job is taken away because of outsourcing.But this scenario is the result of globalization which aims breaking the borders and creating interdependence and increase prosperity.Well if the retouching people are losing their jobs because of outsourcing then the people who outsource their jobs are probably gaining from it.Yea you are losing jobs but someone from your country is probably gaining from it so i think it is even.People who learn their lessons,change their strategies and adapt to changes will survive.Those who simply complain....(god knows what happens to them).I really hate communists and protectionists.Keep the jobs where they originated from huh?-Grow up the world is changing you can't do anything about is except to adapt to it.About the coke industry.Yea they did produce employment but these jobs were not created newly.These people would have been employed in local soft drink industry anyway.But the profit made from the market goes to the US.Isn't that draining our economy.Coke is just an example.There are numerous other fields in which the local traders have been compromised due to globalization.Jobs,products all are the same.It is a global market and consumer buys the best deal.If you don't want the jobs to be outsourced we should also stop all the trade between countries build a china wall.I can say a lot more but i don't wish to.And one more thing you are not the only one affected by outsourcing.The prices have skyrocketed here because every one is willing to pay more.It is just matter of time before the living expenses equals to those in US or UK.Maybe then it will be a more level playing field and you don't have to complain anymore.It will take some time but it will happen.


//You sound very ungrateful for getting these off shored Jobs from developed countries.//
I don't have to be grateful to anyone.I work for them and they pay for me.I will survive even if i don't have those jobs.I earn more on local projects than through overseas.And i usually don't underbid.
Sorry again if i said something that hurt anyone.But i believe in what i say.There is no change in my stand.All are welcome to India-It is a great place really.
--"The World is a book, and those who do not travel read only a page." -Saint Augustine
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  #75  
Old 10-08-2009, 03:29 AM
designcafe designcafe is offline
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Re: Outsourcing Retouching Services To India?

And i joined retouchpro to improve my retouching skills and connect with other people in the industry.I posted here because i was hurt by the comments posted here.I am really proud of my country and cant be quiet when something bad is said about it.I have friends all over the globe (thanks to the internet ) and i thought the world was flat.But I felt really unwelcome when i saw this thread.It kinda sounded like the racist hate forums you come across.And thanks for the book suggestion 'The world is flat'.Sounds interesting.Gonna grab one.
This is my last post in this thread***.Lots to learn and lots of work to do.
***conditions apply
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  #76  
Old 10-08-2009, 06:45 AM
Quantum3 Quantum3 is offline
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Re: Outsourcing Retouching Services To India?

Nobody said you cannot be proud of your country, but when someone says "they still live in India" means that there are countries with much better facilities than India, with a higher standard of life in -terms of materialism- while living in India is very, very cheap and that is what make Indians so competitive but they stay in India, suffering all the problems they have in terms of health, food, space, religions, strikes, education, traffic jams, stress, collapsed public transport (and the big difference between poorness and richness such Mumbai) and many many more stuff related to third world countries. Why are you so proud of India? I would like to know your answer.
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  #77  
Old 10-08-2009, 07:34 AM
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Markzebra Markzebra is offline
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Re: Outsourcing Retouching Services To India?

I've been to India quantum, and whatever your assumptions its a very divided country in terms of material wealth. Design Cafe has a lot to be proud of, and like I have said many times, and this point relates very much to the fears we have, the general work ethic is on a completely different level to anything we are used to.
Quote:
But I felt really unwelcome when i saw this thread. It kinda sounded like the racist hate forums you come across
YES - I think that is probably one of the best points anyone has made so far. Its a pretty clear statement of the way DesignCafe would have felt when he read some of the posts here. And one that should be listened to, and understood.

Last edited by Markzebra; 10-08-2009 at 08:22 AM.
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  #78  
Old 10-08-2009, 07:48 AM
Quantum3 Quantum3 is offline
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Re: Outsourcing Retouching Services To India?

Markzebra, would you like to tell me those charateristics DesignCafe is proud of?
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  #79  
Old 10-08-2009, 10:57 AM
designcafe designcafe is offline
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Re: Outsourcing Retouching Services To India?

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but they stay in India, suffering all the problems they have in terms of health, food, space, religions, strikes, education, traffic jams, stress, collapsed public transport (and the big difference between poorness and richness such Mumbai)
Yes some of what you say is true to some extent.No living costs are not low.It might seem to you that living costs are low because of the the value of rupee against dollar.Rent for one month comes around Rs6000 for a 2 bedroom place.That is around $60 which might seem low to you.But a middle class person earns a average of Rs25000.That is $250.So living costs are pretty high for an average Indian.Everyone is not in the outsourcing business.Yes for a person who outsources it is quiet profitable.So you are right.And we are competitive.
Why am i proud to be an indian?
Yes living standards might be lower compared to UK or US.Please remember that the so called third world countries(i don't know why you like to mentioned it as third world) or those who didn't align themselves with the US or Russia during the cold war were under colonial rule for nearly two centuries.These people from these countries were suppressed and were left in a really bad state when they were given Independence.In this 60 years of freedom we have achieved a lot to be proud of.
Some of the reasons to be proud of
1.We have one of the most advanced space technologies(US outsourced their satellites to be launched by India :-) ).I think you know about the chandrayan mission.We will soon have a manned mission and hopefully a man on the moon.We have also a mars mission around 2013.[Well if you are wondering why i am talking about space i have have a special interest in space]
*Health-I know a lot of people from western world who come to India to get health care and specialized surgeries.From what i hear it is because they have to wait for a really long time to get treated and it costs a fortune for treatment in some cases.We are certainly lacking in some areas but things are changing.
*Food-In the place i live in they provide 1kg rice for Rs1.$1=Rs50.There are still places where there is lack in food security but with the growing economy things are bound to get better.(If you are talking about how the food tastes you certainly haven't tried Indian food.)
*Space- what about space?We are a country with a billion people.It is natural the cities are crowded.(And please remember Mumbai is not India-There is a lot more)
*Religions-I don't know how we are suffering because of this.I am proud that my country is home to so many religions,languages,cultures,traditions and still we live together.We don't judge people by their colour,language,religion.There are certainly some fanatics but that is not the majority is.In every street you are sure to find people from at least three different religions speaking 3 different languages(might be more) and i have a blog and there are many from US,UK and western world who think religion means Christianity.And those who say anyone who doesn't believe in christ goes to hell.(I am agnostic :-))
*Strikes-Yes ihate strikes and communists,unions and protectionism.
*education-What about education?.We have some of the best schools.We have a compulsory and free education till age of 14 years.
*traffic jams-Are there no traffic jams in NYC? wow thats really cool.We cant help it.India is a busy and happening country and traffic jams are bound to happen.
*stress-i don't know what you are talking about-can you be more clear?
*collapsed public transport-I think we have a pretty good public transport system.Yes it is pretty crowded.But most people use public transport and you can reach any part of the city or country using public transportation at a really low cost and quickly too.We don't drive fuel guzzling expensive cars to work.We don't pollute the earth as the people from the first world country do and think it is their right.
*(and the big difference between poorness and richness such Mumbai)- first of all mumbai is not India.Yes there is difference in standards between the rich and the poor.But is there no such difference in the western world(I know for a fact it is not the case).i don't deny the fact but it is not a problem that can be solved in a day.
With all its faults there are thousand things to be proud of being an Indian.You wont understand it unless you are from India.
I am proud that when countries that have no differences in terms of religion,language or other things struggle to have a peaceful democratic government.We with a thousand religions,languages,culture have a democratic government.
I am proud that we make you scared of us.
We have come a long way and we have a long way to go.We won't give up.
The British took away a lot of things from us and their other colonies.Leaving us nothing.But they gave us one thing we are grateful for-the English language.We will get back what we lost with this.
If a US person can provide services to a UK or other western nations and vice-versa.I don't see any reason why India or any of the third world country shouldn't and be discriminated.After all they are partly responsible for the state the so called third world countries are in.
P.S-It the western countries and the US that promoted globalization and free trade and so you should face the dark side of it too.Everyone can't have the best of everything.
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  #80  
Old 10-08-2009, 01:08 PM
Quantum3 Quantum3 is offline
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Re: Outsourcing Retouching Services To India?

Nice reply, Design Cafe, but I still find some oddities in it.

The positive things you are proud of belongs to the high wealth people, and that people always is a minority and they don't build a country. For example, how many people can afford the technology advance in India? I know there are lot of IT people in India, but that doesn't mean they can afford what they build (mostly because it's exported to first world countries due the outsourcing). But about the space, just few indians can afford such thing or the like. I mean, that's not solving any real and urgent problem in India, and its only useful to show it off, the same like in cold war with weapons and such. I mean, it's not substancial going to the moon whit thousand of million of starving people on the earth.

About health, how many indians can get the same treatment than the rich people from first world countries get in India? That reminds me to Cuba, where only the tourists and VIP's can afford that quality of service.

I haven't tasted Indian Food, but I have been told it is exquisite. I was reffering to all those mouths that need food. Good qiuality food is affordable for the regular indian? I have seen many videos about India in YouTube and doesn't seem the big part of the population is able to eat in some restaurant. Of course, it's not Etiopia or Somalia.

About space, I have never seen such amount of crowed people such in India, Hong Kong, China or Japan. In fact, these 3 latest have some weird manners to control the space. I saw this in Google Earth and it looks quite insane to me.

About religion, I meant the attacks that indians suffers from other religions, such fanatics (I think they're muslim fanatics). As far as I know, those attacks happens with some kind of regularity (in my country, we don't have terrorist attacks by religion or by ideology, just one and about 20 years ago but we had "civil wars" in 2 opportunities, both started by comunists). Just for your know, I'm pretty close to indian religion more than Christianity (Don't know how many religions you have there, but the followers of the Krshna's Consiusness is quite interesting and right to me, but I'm not vegetarian, however, they're quite right about that and I also love indian music such as Ravi Shankar, or philosophers such as Krishnamurti. Just to mention that I have respect for the indian culture and I like it, but sometimes I get misunderstood).

I also hate strikes and comunists. I'm a lover of education, self awareness and the subsequent free will in this order (not like most people that believes: free will then nothing before or after = chaos instead harmony).

About education, how many people is able to go to the best school? It's easy saying "we have the best X" but if that ¡s not affordable for the big stream of people then that statment is meaningless. We have free education in Argentina, every single person can go to every single level of education for free but the quality of education is very poor and very outdated. There are some exceptions. And becuase education is free, classrooms are highly crowed, specially in the University and it's impossible to learn something in such conditions. For example, in summer we have temperatures up to 40-45ºC and University here doesn't have any device to cold the air, sum the clasroom is made to hold no more than 50 students, but there are much more than 600 students. Some carrers have less amount of students, but the ratio keeps the same. In winter, we don't have any device that warms the air, so in summer, the classroom gets crowed but lot of students remains outside now imagine in winter with temperatures below 0ºC. It's quite clear an student will learn much more in better conditions and I don't think India has those conditions considering the amount of people living in India (we're just 44 million of people).

The transport system is quite crowed.

All these items should stress any form of life.

How does India to propperly feed, heal, and teach to thousand of billion of people? Without these basic facts of life a civilization cannot evolve and insert them selves into this globalized and materialistic world more than doing labors but history has it changes, and very important ones so I'm not saying India cannot be a big potence, with opportunities for every single indian, what I'm saying it'¡s not right now and it seems only just few and very lucky people is able to afford certain basic things, as you say at the beginning of your message when talking about the cost of life in India. I'm still wondering why are you so proud of India. I thought you will say something related to the indian philosophy or religion, something less occidental-like.
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