RetouchPRO

Go Back   RetouchPRO > Business > Work/Jobs
Register Blogs FAQ Site Nav Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read


Work/Jobs Talk about the business side of things. Advice, questions, inspiration, and moral support

The French are messing with us

Reply
 
Thread Tools
  #11  
Old 03-12-2009, 02:45 AM
amica999's Avatar
amica999 amica999 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Capital Village of Germany aka Berlin
Posts: 1,716
Blog Entries: 2
Re: The French are messing with us

Quote:
Originally Posted by psdbunny View Post
I have to say, as a woman, I do feel severely "cheated" when I see an ad for a beauty product (especially mascara) and the ad has been severely retouched - in such a way that I know the results of the image were not achieved with the product. I do feel this is outright lying or fraud. On the other hand, I also love retouching images and uncovering the hidden beauty in an image. I really enjoy it, to be honest, but I also feel some sort of conflict when it comes to retouched photos for beauty products (in particular).
Aren't all commercials like that? "Eat chocolate cerials and get slim";"use this cleaner and you don't have to clean for 6 month again"; 16 years old modells using products that reduce wrinkles and and and....It's not really lying, they just leave out needed information i.e "Eat chocolate cerials and get slim" only once a day and nothing else...so it may as well work
Reply With Quote top
  #12  
Old 03-12-2009, 03:21 AM
psdbunny psdbunny is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 19
Re: The French are messing with us

Quote:
Originally Posted by amica999 View Post
Aren't all commercials like that? "Eat chocolate cerials and get slim";"use this cleaner and you don't have to clean for 6 month again"; 16 years old modells using products that reduce wrinkles and and and....It's not really lying, they just leave out needed information i.e "Eat chocolate cerials and get slim" only once a day and nothing else...so it may as well work
You're very right about that; I think my conflict with print ads for beauty products is that the "fraud" that I perceive is a lot more blatant or "overt". It's hard to describe, but the transgression seems so much more palpable in that particular instance. Mascara ads in particular are notorious for this.

At the same time, I really love retouching...so I get over it, fast.
Reply With Quote top
  #13  
Old 03-12-2009, 03:29 AM
Quantum3Studio Quantum3Studio is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Argentina
Posts: 397
Re: The French are messing with us

Even if we show to everybody that all is retouched, people will keep trusting on the illusion. People love the illusion so much, that they will fight to keep it alive.
Reply With Quote top
  #14  
Old 03-12-2009, 04:35 AM
MaximMorin's Avatar
MaximMorin MaximMorin is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Quebec, Canada
Posts: 12
Re: The French are messing with us

i will be the black sheep for this one, but at a certain level, i think it's a great thing to put credit and tell if the photo have been manipulated. People "trust" photography more than science fiction (to take the upper comparaison) because they use it on an almost daily basis to record their memories.... So, when i show a before/after of some retouch i did to some people (like one of my friend who had an eating disorder because she was always comparing herself with model in magazine) they didn't thought it was that modified. for us, who are in the indistry, it's an evidence, but for the general public it's not. They know it's modified (their not stupid either), but not that much. I'm not so sure people want to be keep in illusion.... Just look at how much extra money Dove did after lunching that "self confidence" campaign we all saw (who was a great marketing piece if i might say). And i don't think we must be on the defensive so fast, a magazine in Québec claim that they stopped retouching their cover/editorial/etc picture inside (Chatelaine) but they still hired retoucher to do the chromo work and style work... well it's just my opinion...
Reply With Quote top
  #15  
Old 03-12-2009, 04:48 AM
psdbunny psdbunny is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 19
Re: The French are messing with us

Quote:
Originally Posted by MaximMorin View Post
i will be the black sheep for this one, but at a certain level, i think it's a great thing to put credit and tell if the photo have been manipulated. People "trust" photography more than science fiction (to take the upper comparaison) because they use it on an almost daily basis to record their memories.... So, when i show a before/after of some retouch i did to some people (like one of my friend who had an eating disorder because she was always comparing herself with model in magazine) they didn't thought it was that modified. for us, who are in the indistry, it's an evidence, but for the general public it's not. They know it's modified (their not stupid either), but not that much. I'm not so sure people want to be keep in illusion.... Just look at how much extra money Dove did after lunching that "self confidence" campaign we all saw (who was a great marketing piece if i might say). And i don't think we must be on the defensive so fast, a magazine in Québec claim that they stopped retouching their cover/editorial/etc picture inside (Chatelaine) but they still hired retoucher to do the chromo work and style work... well it's just my opinion...

Great points that you raised, especially about the success of the Dove campaign. Also, you're right, laymen don't realize at all to what extent images are retouched. When I show friends my before and afters, they're completely shocked at what is possible technologically...most of them hadn't a clue.

It's interesting that self-esteem issues are suddenly this big cause for concern and legislation when it comes to magazines and the fashion/beauty industry. Magazines aren't at all inclusive or diverse and often show a single-sided standard of beauty/beauty ideal. That approach which has been in place for decades has caused many self-esteem issues among certain demographics, but nothing was ever done about it then (or even now).

More than just people with eating disorders emerge from reading magazines with self-esteem issues.
Reply With Quote top
  #16  
Old 03-12-2009, 04:59 AM
Markzebra's Avatar
Markzebra Markzebra is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: London, UK
Posts: 718
Re: The French are messing with us

"I have to say, as a woman, I do feel severely "cheated" when I see an ad for a beauty product (especially mascara) and the ad has been severely retouched" Yes having changed the color, the tone and the way it reflects light of mascara many times - the way I justify it to myself is that its an illustration of the product not a description. Like the old 1950's illustrators who used to draw the product in an obviously contrived way. Times were simpler then, I'm not so sure now.

like one of my friend who had an eating disorder because she was always comparing herself with model in magazine - I once lived with someone who had an eating disorder, by this I mean she was forcing herself to be sick and getting thinner and thinner. When she left the place I was in, I found beauty magazines and 2 CD's stuffed behind the bed- Britney Spears and J'Lo - its haunted me ever since.
Reply With Quote top
  #17  
Old 03-12-2009, 05:06 AM
MaximMorin's Avatar
MaximMorin MaximMorin is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Quebec, Canada
Posts: 12
Re: The French are messing with us

and i just want to add. the industry is not the only player into the eating disorder problem, it's basicly a low self-estim issue, but it doesn't really help those peole ;-)
Reply With Quote top
  #18  
Old 03-12-2009, 06:28 AM
zacker zacker is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Wallingford, CT USA
Posts: 14
Re: The French are messing with us

Quote:
Originally Posted by Markzebra View Post
Good link Benny. I found the narrators voice lazy and irritating, sounds like she's been stuffing her face with cheeseburger all day - if you ask me she should have her voice digitally resampled.


lol Awesome!!!
Reply With Quote top
  #19  
Old 03-12-2009, 09:48 AM
Markzebra's Avatar
Markzebra Markzebra is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: London, UK
Posts: 718
Re: The French are messing with us

Yeah there's a certain amount of guilt associated with me making that comment I can assure you. It wasnt meant that way though, I promise. Guess I did make it though

Last edited by Markzebra; 03-12-2009 at 10:00 AM.
Reply With Quote top
  #20  
Old 03-12-2009, 10:00 AM
Quantum3Studio Quantum3Studio is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Argentina
Posts: 397
Post Re: The French are messing with us

Quote:
Originally Posted by MaximMorin View Post
They know it's modified (their not stupid either), but not that much. I'm not so sure people want to be keep in illusion.... Just look at how much extra money Dove did after lunching that "self confidence" campaign we all saw (who was a great marketing piece if i might say).
Hi pal,

Yeah, I saw the Dove's ads, very nice ones. However, behind each advertisement there is always an economic interest. In my country (Argentina) those ads have been not shown on TV. I just found them in YouTube. So it's just a regulation of some countries or something like that. Here, the Dove's ads keep the same.
And yeah, people like living inside an illusion. From the veryfirst tribes on the earth, the human being live illusions, exactly for the same thing than nowadays, status and power, but the difference is the moethods have changed, also the symbols, but it keeps the same thing. And it's related with the very first pusional desire of reproduction, talking very globally.
Going a bit more accurately, people don't accepts a lot of things, for example the fact that will die some day, that's the biggest topic in the human life. Death and Sex are the main themes in advertisements, in general. Advertisements stabs where most hurt: lacking self-confidence and they offers the solution (over and over again) to solve all our daily problems, to give us more status, more power, more free and so on... Seems we're nothing without this or that product, and people believes that ads have the solution to all its insecureness that they will never accept. People is driven by pride and ego, they will never change their minds if they don't recognice they have faults, deffects. All the time, people tries to hide their deffects by using retorical fallacies, blaming others for their faluts and they will never ask for apologiez, nor forgive because the pride. People doesn't get stunned by advertisements, that's too naïve, they really believes in advertisements. They really believes they will have more status by buying this product or that one. For example, some people believes there are professional cameras, but that's a fallacy, because cameras have not adjetives that only belongs to human beings. And that people will buy a camera because the camera "is professional" and psychologically, the consumer believes he will be: 1) A professional, 2) A daredevil traveller 3) and the person's look will be more attractive. After they have bought the equipment, they feel dissapointed and leave the equipment in some corner, inside some closet. What says a Nikon's Advertisement: says power, confidence, domination, dynamism, perefection, accuracy, fast response and a lot of similar things. Characteristics that Heroes have. And people feel they will achieve all those characteristics by having that camera. Of course, people who's not photographer and have a very low self-steam and self-awareness. And don't forget that people always needs the approvation of their fellas, but their fellas will not value how kind or how educated, or how much culture this person has, these fellas will value how much power, how much status, how big is his camera, car, house, salary, etc are. And then, the pride. It's a circle of power and recognition. Even the very well educated people have vanity, Intelectual Vanity I call it. We all need to look ourselves in the mirror and think we're the best of the best, otherwise, we buy something that makes us feel we're, otherwise, we're nothing and there is where advertisements plays the whole game.

Last edited by Quantum3Studio; 03-12-2009 at 10:06 AM.
Reply With Quote top
Reply

  RetouchPRO > Business > Work/Jobs


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Search retouch speak french okleyz Classifieds 3 09-14-2008 01:17 PM
HDR messing around palms HDR, Panoramas and Tone Mapping 21 11-15-2007 02:07 PM
Creative portraits: Nice Gal Peter S Turning Portraits into Digital Sketches, Oils, Watercolors 66 03-02-2007 07:10 AM
Bridge is messing up pictures ejr8568 Software 5 04-16-2006 01:57 PM


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 01:18 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
SEO by vBSEO ©2011, Crawlability, Inc.
Copyright © 2016 Doug Nelson. All Rights Reserved