Freelance rate for creative retoucher in london?

[pierre_1610]

Hi all, just after a bit of advise really.
I've been retouching photography and cg in a professional capacity for the last 6years, and have used photoshop for about 5yrs prior to this so have atleast 10yrs experience.
I've mainly been working in architecture for 2 of London's top high-end studios.
I am about to go freelance and am looking for some advise. I've got a couple of clients (high-end cg advertising studios) interested in using me and they want to know my daily rate.
In architecture the rate has dropped recently from £250 per day to about £180-200 per day. What is the current daily rate in advertising?

cheers

[ankitmahajan]

Hi Pierre,
We are a retouching company in India and I assume if we could work together it will be mutually benefit for both of us. We can provide you the services at a cheaper rate with assurance of high quality standards. Kindly let me know your thoghts.

Take care

[camilla_k]

i think our indian friend misunderstood you a little here...

i would belive advertising rates are between £250-£400 a day...
so maybe £300/350?

but the market it tough so you might have to "make do" with less. good luck!

[Quantum3]

Why some people goes freelance?

[camilla_k]

Originally Posted by Quantum3

Why some people goes freelance?

because they probably lost their job!

[Quantum3]

Originally Posted by camilla_k

because they probably lost their job!

But, would't be easier finding another job in some agency?

[camilla_k]

Originally Posted by Quantum3

But, would't be easier finding another job in some agency?

not in London no...

[Quantum3]

Originally Posted by camilla_k

not in London no...

Mmmhhh... Strange... This draws me another question.

What makes easier finding a Freelance job in London?

[Yowser]

It's easier to find freelance work because many of the agencies still need to get the work done and have it in their budget to hire someone on a project by project basis but do not have the funds to hire anyone full time. Remember, when an agency is slow they still need to pay their full time employees. If you just use a freelancer as soon as a project is over you don't have to pay someone to just sit there waiting for the next project to come in.

[Quantum3]

Originally Posted by Yowser

It's easier to find freelance work because many of the agencies still need to get the work done and have it in their budget to hire someone on a project by project basis but do not have the funds to hire anyone full time. Remember, when an agency is slow they still need to pay their full time employees. If you just use a freelancer as soon as a project is over you don't have to pay someone to just sit there waiting for the next project to come in.

Wow, very nice and clear answer. What mades me think if agencies don't get work because seems the industry is a bit stopped, so what can do a freelancer! Because, in terms of business, all is about contacts.

I think what agencies are doing is illegal. They cannot fire the employers just because they don't have incoming works. I have a friend who took legal actions agains an agency which fired him because lack of incoming work and he's winning the case.

[Yowser]

What the agencies are doing isn't any way shape or form illegal. It's how businesses in any field function. If they have no work coming in then they have no income coming in. Without income they can't afford to pay their employees, afford to cover their bills or turn a profit so of course they have to let employees go when there is a slow flow of work.

[pierre_1610]

Thanks for your reply's i've been offered a 4 month contract in a top London studio for £150per day, am i getting ripped off? I question it due to it being £100 per day less than i get as a cg artist. I thought creative retouching was better paid than cg artist.

[Saucisson]

Getting a solid 150 per day is fine, it's better than maybe getting one or two jobs a week @ 300 pd no?

Me, i've been freelance in London since i was 20, though links, connections, and a few nice ad agencies, i've kept perfectly busy every year since, even in this economic climate. FYI my current day rate is £500 per day, but i'm recognised among my clients as able to carry out good quality work quicker than their in-house guys.. I often get calls when times are tight... or when a project is simply beyond their ability....

----------

www.jeanmichel.co.uk

[camilla_k]

hi

i dont think you are being ripped off. its quite a standard rate and if they have given you a 4month contract its not too bad. the rates discussed above where more targeted at advertising anyway.

[mac monkey]

Hi pierre_1610, I would say if you are as experienced as you say you are then you are being ripped off. Paying an experienced digital artist anything less than £280 (£35hr for an eight hour day, but probably more) a day is insulting. But saying that it depends on who their clients are and if it is only editorial work.

[Stealth]

I think the guys make some good points.

I think for a solid four month contract £150 per day sounds very reasonable. If it were for two weeks or so, then maybe not considering your skill set. Thats part of the gamble of freelancing. You are very unlikely to be working the whole year round, so you price yourself accordingly. Lowering your daily rate for a longer contract, makes perfect business sense, for both parties.

I can see it from mac monkeys point of view as well however, maybe try to push them for another £20 per day.

[mac monkey]

Hi Stealth, my reasoning is behind the idea that a freelancer should always have a higher hourly rate than a permanent person. In London for a permanent position the average salary for a mid to high end retoucher ranges between £40k - £50k, which works out more than £150 a day. For an average eight hour day that would only work out about £19hr, and you can guarantee you will be expected to work a little overtime most nights of the week, which is unfortunately the nature of the job thus lessoning your hourly rate even more. When ever I used to freelance I would never except anything under a £300 day rate. That way if there were a few late nights I knew I wouldn't feel bitter about it.

[Stealth]

Hi mac monkey.

Good point! I have to admit I did not factor in the numbers to get the hourly rates.

I still think that a for a four month contract you should accept a bit of a lowering. I must admit, im curious to know who would offer such a long term freelance contract in the first place? I would have thought said company would have tried to do some restructuring from within, or rotated from a pool of freelancers like most places.

I agree about the extra hours, you cant just put your pen down at 5 or 6 every night, time after time, and expected to be invited back. If I stay past 10:30pm I always demand Beer and Pizza though!

[Magone]

The way I see it is this.
No matter how skilled and experienced you are, if you are unemployed and you can't get a permanent position, then you have little bargaining power. OK, so the guys offering £150 a day may well be taking advantage of you, but why not see this as an opportunity to 'get your foot in the door'. Take the four months work at £150 pd. at 5 days a week this equates to £12,000. This will pay the bills while you are looking around for additional work. You are also 'Inside' which is worth a fortune, as you working in the industry and mixing with colleagues and potential contacts, you are networking. Compared to being on the 'Outside' and sitting at home wondering what it would be like to be working in a studio and getting paid!!
If you are as good as you claim, then you have the ideal opportunity to make yourself invaluable to the studio, so when the 4 months is up, they ask you to stay on, it's then you can re-negotiate your contract.

In the famous words of Ronald Reagan "It's better to be inside the tent pissing out, than outside trying to piss in".
Excuse the bad language, blame Ron!

Regards

Mark

[Quantum3]

If I would need 150 pounds per day for living, I would think that government is scamming me.

[Stealth]

What has the government got to do with it?

If you work as a freelancer, you are either self employed or a limited company. The only money you give to the government is tax, and if you have a creative account, you'll pay far less tax then if you were employed full time.

Its not question of how much money you need, its about how much you are worth.

[Magone]

Stealth is right!
Furthermore if you need £150. a day to live on EVERY DAY, you have a pretty good life style. May I suggest that while you are unemployed you reduce your outgoings!

[Magone]

@Quantum3

Sorry Matt, getting a bit mixed up with who was who there!!

[Godmother]

Originally Posted by Quantum3

If I would need 150 pounds per day for living, I would think that government is scamming me.

Do YOU charge per day what u need to go through that day? You won't go very far with that philosophy.

You charge what you're worth...

And why go freelance? Agencies charge x2 for your work, freelance it's all you. And you can freelance for agencies too.

Best of both worlds

[Quantum3]

Originally Posted by Stealth

What has the government got to do with it?

If you work as a freelancer, you are either self employed or a limited company. The only money you give to the government is tax, and if you have a creative account, you'll pay far less tax then if you were employed full time.

Its not question of how much money you need, its about how much you are worth.

Someone said something about paying the bills and that 150 pounds are not enough for the daily life, that's why I replied what I replied.

Now, why Governments are involved? Government is the corner stone of society, they make the rules, whatever you're freelancing or not, they do the rules, and they create the standards of life and do the arragments with the big boss. The same flat you pay there, pays a mansion in Argentina. If you think a bit, you will be realized that the high standard of life in Europe (even in Spain) is overvalued about 3 or 4 times more than what's worth.

[Stealth]

We're starting to veer off topic here.

No-one ever said that £150 was not enough for daily life. Some people would be happy with that, others would not.

Magone made the point that if someone was unemployed, then £150 per day would be acceptable, because you would have peace of mind knowing that you could pay the bills. It would also give you time to pursue more well paid work.

Thanks for the Economics lesson. I might move to Argentina.

[Magone]

Hang on there Stealth... I haven't finished packing yet!!
:-)

[Stealth]

Sorry Magone, Only room for one good retoucher in Argentina im afraid.

I might have to lower my rate to get work...what a can of worms that would be!

[Magone]

@Stealth



Doh!

[Kermy]

okay i'm putting my two cents (okay pence) in.
i'm in london and freelancing. this year has been a bit tough. not for getting jobs but more so the rate at which to charge. rates have dropped. at the start of last year you could charge for a retoucher £35 per hour as a minimum. This year its dropped to my personal minimum which is £28 per hour. I've done this because I'd rather be working than not. And as for day rates for retouching, £150 is way too low especially for a big ad agency. you myfriend are being ripped off. The very mimum you should look for is a £220 day rate considering the current environment. This works out to roughly £25 per hour and you have guaranteed work for a lenghty period of time. Also point out to the agency that they are bypassing any agent fees which would add a minimum £80 per day ontop of what they'd have to pay you. Ad agency retouchers don't work normal hours, take into account regular late nights.
Hope this doesn't detter you, but I can't stand it when i see someone being shown the short end of a straw, especially when its a fellow retoucher...