Unpaid work: when is it okay?

[ElementalSiren]

I get a few job offers now and then from people who claim up front that they can't pay for a professional-level retouch (and some who even go further and think it's 'enough' that you're getting something for your portfolio in return). I'm curious how others deal with this blatant request for pro bono work. Do you decline them right at the get-go, or do you ever make a decision to go ahead and sacrifice your valuable time for a 'charity' job? If so, what do you base that decision on? Have you ever tried a payment schedule or bartering system with those kinds of clients, or is it a lost cause from the beginning?

[plugsnpixels]

Unpaid rent: when is it okay?
Unpaid groceries: when is it okay?
!!

Frankly, you can do self-assignments to populate your portfolio, no need to have someone else tell you what to do (and expect more and more and more as you go along).

And perhaps you shouldn't call these "job offers", as no traditional job expectations (payment for work) is included. Call it a "work for me for free" offer.

When a charity is involved it can get dicey, depending on its legitimacy. But you have to be realistic about your capability to "work" for free, lest you become a charity case yourself.

[Repairman]

Plugsnpixels has it right Siren. Look at it another way. "Hey photographer, I need some nice pix but can't afford your prices. Do them for free and you can use them in your bag." See what they say! I would and have done job swaps over the years with photographers, designers and marketers which has worked well for both parties but if you're in this to make a living don't even consider doing stuff for free. It also sends out the wrong messages!
R.

[zganie]

IT IS NEVER OK!!!!!!
what other line of work do people "WORK FOR FREE"
And people ask me why I keep asking about people making a living
or a DUH what exactly do you mean
this is absolute Bullsxxt Work for free

[Godmother]

Honestly I couldn't answer your question without having seen your portfolio.

I still work on images for no monetary compensation. I'd never call it "free work" tho.

If you feel you're working for free, then don't do it.

[plugsnpixels]

Originally Posted by Godmother

I still work on images for no monetary compensation. I'd never call it "free work" tho.

Godmother, please clarify. With that explanation it seems you have the potential for a career in politics! ;-)

PS: You're the one with the retouching DVD ads everywhere, yes? I think I wrote you once about being listed here.

[Godmother]

Originally Posted by plugsnpixels

Godmother, please clarify. With that explanation it seems you have the potential for a career in politics! ;-)

Well... not everything is about money.

I'm going to Germany in my Europe "tour", the organizer of my workshop there is a photographer I like and respect a lot, very talented.

He suggested that while I'm there we could do a story together. To come up with a few ideas and help him produce it. I accepted right away, the idea of working with him was motivation enough. I'm not getting money, he is not getting money, the agency models won't be getting money... it's call a test.
Professional Test.

We all participate in the creation of beautiful images - I wouldn't call that free work. Free work is an oxymoron. A contradiction.

You do something because you get something out of it: Money, publication, name, recognition, a good contact, pleasure

Originally Posted by plugsnpixels

PS: You're the one with the retouching DVD ads everywhere, yes? I think I wrote you once about being listed here.

I don't know about the ads everywhere... I haven't seen one, but then again, google knows I'm not target :P

Beauty & Hair Retouching High End Techniques - is the DVD I did, the producer is Vitaly, I never got any email, note or message from you, so maybe you're confusing me with someone else?



x

[plugsnpixels]

That sounds like a decent arrangement. So who's buying lunch? ;-)

I looked at the DVDs on your site and recognized the cover photos and ad font from the banners I used to see (they were here on RP and elsewhere on the web).

[TopiToo]

Hello ElementalSiren

From my experience on this very website I took up an offer to do a few retouches for free,
and I with a photographic member here with mutual understanding we could possibly work
together. I spent 6+ hours on one image in my free time which I knew from the outset would
be the case as that’s me.
The feedback was informative in respect I had an opinion, but the request was to provide
my working PSD file which I was very reluctant to do so and ultimately decided this was not
something I was confortable with for oblivious reasons.
Hence ironically nothing more transpired.

I am now of the opinion and I hope I am wrong but there are many members myself included
who need good Hi-Res pictures to work on to build a portfolio and visa versa for photographers ,
but ultimately the decision must be yours if you are willing to commit for free.

The way I look at "mates rates" "freebies" work now if you are doing it for free is not putting
food on the table do you not need to eat? I know I do.

I appreciate it is very difficult, but you will gain more respect in your profession if you value
yourself/time accordingly.

good luck

TopiToo

[DJSoulglo]

I do loads of unpaid stuff. I only do it because I want to do it though. If someone comes up to me with a question "I need retouching, but I have no money, you wanna?" I wont say yes. If someone comes up to me and tells me about an awesome project or great idea he/she has and if I would be interested to work together, you'll get a much nicer answer.

Only if it's something that I can be proud of at the end of the day. Would I want this person's work in my portfolio is also a good question to ask yourself.

[women'sdesk]

Even models ranked in the top ten photographed by Steven Meisel and Mario Testino have to test for unknown photographers, it's part of the job.

[iDad]

Sometimes it seems a no win scenario with Graphics work
To sum it up in 10 words
You're Damned if you do,
You're Damned if you don't.

[women'sdesk]

Sometimes it seems a no win scenario with Graphics work
To sum it up in 10 words
You're Damned if you do,
Your Damned if you don't.

You just have to make your own opportunities.. & if you can't beat them join them lol

[ftp-Jeff]

Never!

I remember the first time I was called to probably one of the worlds most famous photographers... He had work for me, I done it, fine job it was too... He seemed to think he did not have to pay for it, he thought I was doing it for the prestige. Soon knocked that out of him. He then gave me more work!

If people do not pay you, they do not respect you, or your work.

[Pari Retouch]

Well I agree with Natalia.
One have to test for creating art out of it. If the photographer is asking to retouch crappy images for free don't do it but he is offering something that will help you for your portfolio I would say do it!

[Don Fenucci]

Almost never. The only time that I do ANY free work is for bereavement photos. I would do a freebie for my mother if she asked. And don't fall for the "extended" family freebies because you end up doing an image for free and then they ask for you to restore all of their old photos. Then you're left with either spending hours pleasing your family or upsetting them when you refuse to restore dozens of boxes full of images.

If you are applying for a job somewhere then you will probably have to retouch a few photos for the lab/studio so they can see your work even if you've shown them a portfolio. At that point it's not necessarily free work as much as completing a job interview. I applied for a job once and the owner asked me if I would retouch a few of his images to see what I could do. The next thing that I knew I had been sitting there for about 3 hours. The guy was nice and gave me a half a day's pay for it.

Other than that if you were to choose to barter your services that would be on a case-by-case basis. Buy me a steak dinner and I'll think about it. Other than that why be a slave for anyone?? My time is very valuable to me and the rent is due!

[RobertAsh]

I agree with Natalia and with the others here who properly qualify "work for no direct cash". I'm a photographer and I've done (monetarily) unpaid work in four circumstances:

1. Building my portfolio. In this case I specifically do work that will actually enhance my portfolio in ways that will win me business that I don't have currently. One example is photographing enough people to give me a range of demographics to diversify my portfolio. Once I start reliably selling work in the new target market I stop doing free work.
2. Barter / Trade for valuable services. I do this with my accountant At his request
3. Charity: Doing work that I honestly don't mind doing for no charge for whomever and for whatever purpose.
4. Reasonable expectation of getting something valuable back in return. For example, when I have good indication that someone will buy something from me if I do the work without payment up front. Or if someone can and has referred me to people who became or will become valuable customers.

Category 4 is the category I do least and the one I'm most careful about.

Part of the reality of business is investment. You simply cannot expect money for literally everything you do. You give away extras, you do work on spec sometimes, that's just the way it works. You just have to make as sure as possible that it's worth the effort. If you don't want to do it and it's not likely to win you something valuable (e.g. retouching sub-standard images for free when the end result won't impress customers enough to win business or provide other compelling value for you) then be careful or just don't do it.

[hawkeye60]

Working for free is saying your work has absolutely no value.

[plugsnpixels]

And we probably shouldn't even say "work", we should label this "unprofitable activity".

[JamesCamron]

Ofcourse NOT! You shouldn't take any pro-bono gigs unless they are family.. When you work, make sure that you will be paid for the effort, energy, time and brain activity you have invested in it. From the moment they make contact, you have the right to ask for payment.

[Godmother]

I just did a Honda Ad for a photographer that I tested with a week before, we did an editorial for NEO2 - Ended up being the cover story because the magazine liked it so much. I got the credit for the studio, the job with the huge budget (decent deadline), a contact with a great agency and art director, not to mention a reputable company.

Be smart

[jesterjeni]

If you are willing to work for free you should volunteer for operation photo rescue....at least you know that the people who recieve your picture will appriciate it!!it is a chance to practice your skills or talents. I restored a picture or two for family...and I charged them for it. I am seriously underpaid most of the time, but I do expect some sort of payment. I once restored a picture for the owner of a coffee shop who offered me coffee in exchange for future work. I did not learn to restore overnight, I am always learning, it takes time and skill. It also cost money for the software I use. photoshop cs5 was not cheap. the books I read cost about $50.00 each.its not uncommon for me to spend $100.00 on a program. I have to charge for the things I do. I if restoring came easy to everyone they would do it themselves! You are selling yourself when you sell your work, you have to feel that your work has value.

[olivercoupe]

I have retouched many test shoots, both to boost my portfolio and to practice. I would only work for free if I could see the potential to network with good photographers and for there to be a possibility of paid work in the future. Although I would never agree to work for free unless I had met the photographer face to face. I have been contacted via email for freelance work, suggested a good rate, retouched their images and never been paid before.

[aartist]

I have done work before payment but never without payment request. Most pay, some don't. The few that don't, I guess you could say got it for free!