Where are all the high-end clientele online?

[ChristopherGFX]

Hi I'm located in SoCal and have plenty of high-end work in studio or through agencies in person but I really want to branch out online--and perhaps even fully transition. I'm not looking so much for someone to hand me a job as to give real advice and help me get going in the right direction.

My background is 14 years of high-end retouching for commercial photography, web, print, package, and entertainment media. No surface blur or reliance on cheap filters--genuine paint overs and crisp pixel detail @ 600-300 DPI/PPI. A lot of this comes from my experience in illustration (hyperrealism). So in summary...

Over 20,000 high-end photo edits to date: ranging from props, FX, women, men, children, babies, amateurs, lingerie, hair, fur, cloth wrinkles/veins/muscles/teeth, cars, composting, jewelery, electronics/lights/screens, reflections, chrome, skies, lighting, shadows, clouds, fog, emergencies, photo-repair, dirty/distorted lenses, complex set extensions, painting branches/leaves/grass/foliage etc. If you can imagine it I've probably done something like it at least 3-10 times.

Previous clientele includes: US Army, US Navy, US Air force, US Marine Corps, US Coast Guard, Miramax Films, Hyperion Pictures, AOL Time Warner, Disney, MTV, Fox, Sony, MGM, ESPN, NFL, Ford, Chrysler, Craftsman, Martha Stewart, KitchenAid, Kohler, Sterilite, Logitech, Mattel, Fisher Price, LEGO, Hasbro, Bell + Howell, Nike, Samsonite, As Seen on TV, PepsiCo, Campbell's, Heinz, Kraft, Velcro, Crayola, Pentel.

Temp Portfolio: http://CHRISTOPHERGFX.CARBONMADE.COM

This is only a quick 35 image quick preview. My personal site is down under revision. I have hundreds and hundreds of images up there and I'm seriously rethinking the gallery & navigation and how to focus on what. If you need/want higher res or more samples let me know.

[RobertAsh]

Hi Christopher,

Welcome to RetouchPro.

My personal experience with many high-end clientele in other industries (many years in high technology, more recently in photography, plus knowing a little bit about high-end banking) is that you will seldom find such customers online.

High-end typically means high-touch, which typically means lots of personal attention and courting those clients, then being invited to work for them. It means you don't find them online, you find them in-person. By mixing, mingling with them, by being referred by people they know, respect and trust. It means relationship-building. And that's hard to do online. Especially initially.

Once you get a reputation and get lots of referral work and are well known in their circles then you might work with your existing high-end clients online, but often if not typically it requires in-person relationship building, especially for winning new clients. Because that's what they're used to, and that's what your competitors are doing for them.

That said, I'm not an experienced high-end retoucher. Some of the high-end retouchers here might have a different perspective, but I've found that that is how it works across every industry I'm familiar with.

[ChristopherGFX]

Hi Robert,

Thanks for the response and the welcome.

Generally I'd agree with you. Even after working my way up to management and training other retouchers I don't get much time to socialize with the clientele and not much more than what would result in me eating holes and burning bridges with where I get my bread and butter.

I mean it's great for getting models' cards who are willing to work at a discount without their agency and finding photographers who just like to shoot and do high quality side work. What you're talking about would require me to work in sales or as a buyer or some other liaison type position if not upper management.

Which reminds me. My brother managed to work his way up rapidly in sales to an executive position by lots of persistent cold calling. That's often looked down upon or advised against, but I might just do that if I have too. Upper management employs secretaries/assistants to filter people so it's on them, not you if you get through and this is generally the nature of sales.

[RobertAsh]

Hi Christopher,

I think you're evaluating the situation correctly. If you're employed right now then you have to be careful.

Socializing is key. Around where you are (Southern California) there have to be mixers and networking opportunities pretty much everywhere. Hang out where either:

• The people you want as end customers gather and socialize or
• The people (other vendors) who can refer you to those customers gather and socialize.
• or both.

Make your own business cards with your website and contact info (and better yet include a stunning high-end retouching example done outside of your employer's assignments and projects -- it can even be a personal project done just for this purpose), start telling people what you do (just mention it as the conversation goes that way - no pressure, no 'sales'), exchanging cards, and build contacts. If you have common interests with people, e.g. hobbies, alumni events, that's a good way to meet people.

You need to get out and mix in order to run into people who can hire you outside your current employer. A carefully selected cold call list can help augment those efforts but is seldom as productive for reaching high-end clientele as is meeting them and establishing rapport and relationships in person.

[Fostercat]

LMAO. You're kidding right, the both you?

[ChristopherGFX]

Originally Posted by Fostercat

LMAO. You're kidding right, the both you?

Hey, I wish I was kidding.

I've worked for studios and agencies, but only in-house. They need something done they want you to come in and work with the databases and talk to photographers and be there to take and give direction.

But that's my experience. The few times I've looked online for telecommute jobs it's some small freelance gig for a photographer, weddings, etc, where you're basically going to have to take a pay cut even if you present yourself as well-rounded and experienced.

Unless you can sell yourself as a successful and full-fledged ad agency I don't really know how to get clients. We all know that the big names employ freelance photographers so it would make sense that they also use freelance retouchers--probably attached to those photographers or perhaps ex-employees.

[RobertAsh]

Originally Posted by Fostercat

LMAO. You're kidding right, the both you?

No, this is quite serious. As I shared, I've been successful in two different industries winning high-end clientele -- in high technology and in photography. In both industries I've held sales-related, marketing-related and product development related roles. I'm also reasonably familiar with high-end banking and investment management.

Plus I have friends and colleagues in other industries and roles as well (accounting, financial planning, architecture, interior design, event planning, investor relations, sales, etc.). Every one of them so far that I've met and talked with follows the principles and techniques I've shared above to win and retain high-end clientele.

If you have more knowledge of this area in the retouching industry or if you have better, more effective techniques for winning high end clientele then please do share them, I'm certain all of us here would be interested in learning proven, effective approaches from you. This is an area where no one knows it all, where no one can learn too much and where everyone can benefit from new, successful ideas and approaches.

[ftp-Jeff]

It is easy...... But, you have to have a worthy portfolio. As well as a few other tricks up your sleeve.

Good luck!

[Benny Profane]

No, it's not easy, even if you have a worthy portfolio. Which I don't see here.

Now I know where i went off the rails, though. I didn't hang out at the right bars with my business cards.

[ftp-Jeff]

In the 80's hanging out in Bars in the Agency districts of London would definintely produce work... Not Now.

I hate to piss on your chips... But your folio is nowhere near the high end level agencies need..

[Benny Profane]

"piss on your chips" Ha. Love to hear that little Geico lizard say that.

[ChristopherGFX]

Originally Posted by ftp-Jeff

In the 80's hanging out in Bars in the Agency districts of London would definintely produce work... Not Now.

I hate to piss on your chips... But your folio is nowhere near the high end level agencies need..

Well all the stuff up there is completed is 'semi-high end' meaning under one hour turn around (usually 20 minutes) with high volume so you usually can only fix one major thing quick. Plus no fashion, glamor or any art-related shots.

They want realistic blandness, sometimes too soft so that your work blends well with the lower end work from retouchers who just do really basic stuff like dust, clipping paths, etc.

I really want the opportunity to upgrade out of this work because I know I can do much better given the time and proper shots/freedom Plus I've maxed out at $36/hour, have to manage/train other retouchers and I'm the biggest fish in this tiny pond.

I mean the photographers I often work with are high volume Brooks graduates who obviously don't really care or have the time to care about the shots they produce as long as they don't have to reshoot.

Surely you have some understanding of what I mean?

Anyways I'm of course willing to work for free and interested in starting with 'worthy' raw files to begin with.

[ftp-Jeff]

As a true Londoner, I could do that little lizards job! LOL

Originally Posted by Benny Profane

"piss on your chips" Ha. Love to hear that little Geico lizard say that.

[ftp-Jeff]

I have gone through this scenario till I am blue in the face.....

You will not attract creative retouching work with that folio....

[garnet01]

What is your definition of high end?

[ChristopherGFX]

Originally Posted by ftp-Jeff

I have gone through this scenario till I am blue in the face.....

You will not attract creative retouching work with that folio....

I'm sort of new to this whole internet retouching thing so do pardon. I assumed some people would have 'worthy' raws available for test purposes.

I do have realistic/sharp illustration skills in Photoshop like here: http://christophergfx.carbonmade.com/projects/3970717#2

I can repaint products, hair, clothing, clipped/cropped parts of models with passable success in print so I would think that would qualify me to attempt 'worthy' high-end retouching.

[ftp-Jeff]

It really depends on your definition of high end. To me, that means work from the big Ad agencies and top photographers....

Don't go by what you see on here, unfortunately most of the stuff on here is done by hobbyists, not full time pro retouchers. The title of the website is a little misleading.

It is a long road for creative retouchers.... But a worthwhile one. Good luck!

www.creativeretouching.boardhost.com

[Benny Profane]

Originally Posted by garnet01

What is your definition of high end?

Pick up a copy of Vogue. To start.

[ftp-Jeff]

I think I am pulling out of this thread....

Just looked at the start.... You say you have 14 years under your belt? 1997!

If you are not where you want to be as a retoucher in 14 years, I don't know what to say.

[ChristopherGFX]

Originally Posted by ftp-Jeff

I think I am pulling out of this thread....

Just looked at the start.... You say you have 14 years under your belt? 1997!

If you are not where you want to be as a retoucher in 14 years, I don't know what to say.

Yeah, I came in when they were still doing cut and paste, but I started with Photoshop 4.0. That was before history and blend modes, I'm sure you're aware of this if you've been working since the 70's.

I had a pretty early start working from late high school through college mainly catalog and web stuff. Anyways, I never really thought retouching was going to be my main job position all of these years it just sort of ended up that way so I didn't actively pursue fashion, etc.

But anyways, what does it matter?

I'm a pretty fast learner, I understand Photoshop and the tools, channels, curves, etc... I understand anatomy and composition, lighting, basic photography, etc.

I'm a positive person so if I decided or had to start an entirely new field from scratch today I'd be okay with it.

[RobertAsh]

Originally Posted by Benny Profane

No, it's not easy, even of you have a worthy portfolio. Which I don't see here.

Now I know where i went off the rails, though. I didn't hang out at the right bars with my business cards.

There's a lot more to it than that but yes, doing that is better than doing nothing

Originally Posted by ChristopherGFX

But anyways, what does it matter?

I'm a pretty fast learner, I understand Photoshop and the tools, channels, curves, etc... I understand anatomy and composition, lighting, basic photography, etc.

I'm a positive person so if I decided or had to start an entirely new field from scratch today I'd be okay with it.

Christopher,

If you have to ask that question then you're not quite ready for the high end, at least not yet. But be encouraged

I provided my guidance before I actually looked through your portfolio. You have one really good piece in your portfolio -- the chrome sink retouch. I really like that one.

I'd remove most or all of the others and replace them with personal projects that show the appropriate level of skill. It's much better to have a few awesome examples than it is to have many of lesser quality. As you see, people here will be glad to provide you frank, helpful feedback on your site and work.

The worst thing you can do for your career is make excuses, blame your customers or otherwise defend work that is not of the caliber your target clientele expect. At the high end, quality is king. And you have to show it in your examples, not talk about what you can do.

You also need to learn how to interact with customers well and deliver outstanding work consistently and reliably. You seem to be a positive person and we've all needed to learn these things, so just posting here and engaging with the other members is a good start.

Cheers, and Happy New Year.

[ftp-Jeff]

Who are you aiming at?

High end agencies and top photographers?

Or the high street photographer?

Jeff

[Janko]

I suppose I'll chime in with my 2 cents. Please don't take anything I say the wrong way, sh***ing on your work serves me no purpose, my criticism is meant to help you.

I think the 'high-end' label is ridiculously over used. If something you did in 20 minutes gets labeled high-end or 'semi?' high-end, and makes into your portfolio, is a first sign of trouble.

honestly, I don't see anything in your portfolio worth keeping. the amateur 'model' section is painful. nobody wants to see that. The faucet example looks like it took more time but it still doesn't look like anything that would or should be published. A lot of it isn't necessarily a reflection of your skills, the original photography is god awful.

I would suggest finding good source material to start with, there's been some threads here with people offering up their raws for people to practice on, any of that would be a step in the right direction. once you have a few of those I would hit up craigslist in NY and LA for people that want to test, but don't do any of the work for free if their photography sucks. you're lucky enough to live in a large market so that you should be able to meet with a ton of decent up and coming photographers that are testing in person which is a huge bonus.

if you do well you should be able to build up your portfolio fairly quickly and at the same time create relationships with potential clients down the road. the more photographers you meet and work for, the more art buyers/art directors you'll meet and your network will eventually grow. and if you deliver good work people will be happy to refer you to others.

I agree with what Robert says that the likelihood of finding quality work online without having a prior relationship is pretty much zero. One thing I have found that people move around a lot within the industry and they will take your contact info with them wherever they go. I personally worked on a job last month for an ad agency in Berlin from here in Seattle, thanks to an art buyer that I used to work with here, moved over there and got a job there. so my point is that you need to first create relationships with people locally in person and eventually you'll be able to work for them remotely. One of my bigger clients is an ad agency literally a block away form my studio, and I hardly ever go over there anymore. Everything is done by email, phone, and FTP.

my other point is knowing how to use photoshop and using it since 4.0 doesn't mean sh*t really, I mean of course you need to know photoshop but thats assumed if you want to be in this line of work. if you look at your work and compare it with some of the truly high-end retouchers out there and you can't see the difference then you might as well give up now. ultimately people will need you to provide them with creative solutions and you need to be able to see and anticipate what they need. knowing how to get rid of telephone poles isn't going to get you very far.

again, please don't take offense with anything I've said, just being honest. Keep developing your skill/design sense/eye, whatever you want to call it, and not just youtube photoshop tutorials. Keep building a good book, work relationships and stay positive. good luck!

[ftp-Jeff]

Well Said!

[shift studio]

I think its extremely commendable for Janko to offer such an well thought out, in-depth response when most everyone else (myself included) wrote off the OP after seeing the portfolio. I feel we could take a lesson from Janko here.

--shift studio.

[Janko]

Thanks guys, I see these threads come up all the time and most of them go ignored but I figured I might as well give my opinion at least this once.