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  #91  
Old 03-05-2003, 02:11 PM
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winwintoo winwintoo is offline
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There has to be a joke somewhere in this browser mess, so I googled "browser jokes" and came up with this one - it's an oldie but a goodie.

I also found this article that takes a more serious look at the whole issue.

I'm taking David's advice - I'm going to learn Perl...

Take care, Margaret
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  #92  
Old 03-05-2003, 02:29 PM
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Wow, I just found time at work to look at the replys. You guys are really helping me a lot. I have printed all the replys and am going over them now. Your comments are appreciated very much.

Jeannie, you aren't late at all. I've got a feeling that this thing will be going on for quite some time. I'd like to think I could link from those pics in the collage to the actual pictures. But, you know how Microsoft has problems with text and graphics mixing. I guess I could do it but it might harder than the gallery was. Also I wonder how that would look in all the different browsers.

I am already looking at changing the gallery again! But, I am not sure what format to use. I was thinking I could use a table format but I am hearing about the problems Jeannie and Clare are having with tables. I wonder if there is a way to create a nice looking Web site that will display the same on all the browsers?

David I went to the 1st Page 2000 site and tried to download the file. Cnet says it is no longer available and the link for the mirror goes to a German hosting site. I wonder what gives?

Margaret, I tested the site on an old NT machine I have that is running IE 5.0 and everything displays like it should, aside from the Monotype Cursiva font not displaying. I am concerned that the frames on the gallery page are giving some browsers problems. I'm not sure what direction to turn next.

Jeffery, thanks for you observations. I need to know things like that. I created that graphic on the fly and didn't notice that my spacing was off. Thats easy to fix, I'll put that on my list and also the text formatting error.

Clare, thanks for the flowers. It has been a lot of work, I just wish it has all been productive work. I spend too much time going down dead-end alleys and having to change directions. The arrangment of the Menu was an accident. The "link bars" in Frontpage are linked to the navigation tree. How-ever the pages line up in the navigation view is how the links are arranged on the link bar menu. The first time I tried to publish the site last night something went badly wrong in Frontpage and it trashed my navigation alignment. I made three failed attempts to publish the site from my PC to the Web site. It went from bad to worse. Finally I had to delete all the files on the Web server before I published the site to get it work. I still had some problems to work out and I guess I overlooked that one. The links were supposed to align just like you said. I've also had problems editing the site online. I had thought that I should edit an offline copy of the site and re-publish it back to the Web but now I'm not sure which way is best.

It looks like I may need to change the gallery again so I can eliminate the compatibility problems with frames. Problem is what can I go to that would be more compatible with all the browsers?
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  #93  
Old 03-05-2003, 03:03 PM
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winwintoo winwintoo is offline
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Kevin, I'd bet a good steak dinner that the problems I'm having in IE on the Mac are only peculiar to the Mac so I wouldn't worry about it. It is most likely the combination of Mac/IE/and FrontPage that is causing the strange behavior with a strong emphasis on the Mac/Microsoft combination.

Don't change your frame setup until we get an answer from Microsoft - I'm going to write to them write now.

Margaret
ps. I like my steak rare!
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  #94  
Old 03-05-2003, 03:22 PM
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winwintoo winwintoo is offline
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I realize it's late in the day to be asking this, but since you have Front Page 2002, I'm wondering why you didn't use it to create your gallery??

I was looking for a place to complain about your/my problem and came across this article at WebMonkey.

Maybe you tried it and it didn't work for you?

margaret
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  #95  
Old 03-05-2003, 03:31 PM
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I'd like to think I could link from those pics in the collage to the actual pictures. But, you know how Microsoft has problems with text and graphics mixing. I guess I could do it but it might harder than the gallery was. Also I wonder how that would look in all the different browsers.

You want to use an image map to create the links - no text is needed. Do a search on "image_map" in FrontPage and you should find all the info you need to make it work. I have done these in FP before and it was quite easy. To make things easy on yourself, you could just make it link to a simple pop-up window, perhaps with an explanation of the image if it makes sense. Or, just make the image appear in the center section of your layout so that the user will have access to all of the links if s/he wants to get back to the info. It should look the same in all browsers - it's standard HTML 4. No JavaScript or frames needed.

I am already looking at changing the gallery again! But, I am not sure what format to use. I was thinking I could use a table format but I am hearing about the problems Jeannie and Clare are having with tables. I wonder if there is a way to create a nice looking Web site that will display the same on all the browsers?

The problems I'm having with tables is the way earlier versions of Netscape don't render background images in individual cells correctly. It's an issue for me b/c of the way I've put my site together and expect pixels to line up where I want them. (I'm realizing now it's probably not the best design, but I'm too far along to change now. I'll have to wait for my next revision when I hope to use full CSS and get rid of tables.) I don't see anything in your gallery pages that would indicate a table format wouldn't work for you. I know that some sites have a "noframes" version of pages for browsers that don't support frames. You might want to consider something like that. Then again, as Margaret said, the problem with frames seems to be specific to IE on the Mac. So, don't spend any energy changing things until you get that figured out and decide if it's worth it!

It looks like I may need to change the gallery again so I can eliminate the compatibility problems with frames. Problem is what can I go to that would be more compatible with all the browsers?

I think it's next to impossible to design a site that's compatible with all browsers. That said, you might want to read the "serious" link that Margaret provided a couple of posts back. I'm finding it an interesting perspective - and I know that my site doesn't quite fit the view that this author has. However, I know I've purposefully made some design decisions that don't bode well for all browsers. I found a couple of sites with web-browsing stats (like the percentage of people using the various browsers, screen resolution sizes, etc.) and decided to design for the most popular ones. I know I'm not covering everybody perfectly, but hopefully the alternatives I'm providing for users are sufficient.

Don't get too discouraged. I know you probably just want to get this project over and done with, but it might help to look at it as a work in progress that you can improve slowly bit by bit. I think what you've got there now is a good, strong professional site - and almost everything we're mentioning is icing on the cake!

Jeanie
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  #96  
Old 03-05-2003, 05:46 PM
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Margaret I have tried the FR gallery. The reason I didn't like it was that I couldn't put the comments I wanted to put about the images when viewed in the expanded form. The viewer page was a plain blank white page I think. I'll take another look to see if I overlooked something. I may have seen a blank web page and didn't know it, but I thought that I couldn't make any changes to the viewer pages

Thanks for the ideas Jeannie, I'll take a look at that and see what I can so. I have to edit that graphic anyway, to correct the spacing problem, and maybe try something.

I've made some of the minor changes to the site. I seemed to be able to update it OK this evening. That publishing problem last night got kind of frustrating.

You know this thread is getting to be a book! Almost 100 posts.
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  #97  
Old 03-05-2003, 06:01 PM
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Hey, I have one more question. I have changed the name of all the other pages on my site in the "page properties", not the file name, to reflect what I want the search engines to see. Do I need to do this to the home page or does it need to stay as "www.restored-memories.com/index.htm" ? I am wondering why none of the search engines have picked me up and thought this may be a key point. I have submitted the site to four of the main sites through a link on Microsoft.com.
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  #98  
Old 03-05-2003, 06:21 PM
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winwintoo winwintoo is offline
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Quote:
www.restored-memories.com/index.htm
The default page in any directory "must" be called "index.htm" or "index.html" or "home.htm" or "home.html" - home seems to have gone out of favor and I don't see it used much any more.

Most folks will just type "restored-memories.com" into the address bar so the server needs to know what to cough up.

Margaret
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  #99  
Old 03-05-2003, 06:36 PM
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KevinBE KevinBE is offline
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I'm not talking about the name of the page or file. I am referring to the name listed in the page properties, this lable is what internet explorer displays at the top line of the internet explorer window. Like this sites home page displays "RetouchPro - Microsoft Internet Explorer" at the top of the window when the home page is displayed.

By the way I looked again at FP gallerys. There is only one gallery type that allows you to put the picture description on the actual viewing page. I don't like that one because only 5 thumbnails are displayed at once, requiring the user to know that the arrows to each side of the thumbs have to be clicked on to cause the list to scroll let or right to see the rest of the thumbs. I thought that would be confusing, maybe not.
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  #100  
Old 03-05-2003, 06:51 PM
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winwintoo winwintoo is offline
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Sorry Kevin, I misunderstood. You're talking about the <title> and I notice that your's have www.restored-memories.com the title can be anything you want it to be. I don't know how to change it in FrontPage. I would just edit the html and change it there.

I need to shut this down and go do something else. I've been learning Perl today and it's making me cranky

Margaret
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