OK it's online - Page 2

d_kendal · #31 02-17-2003, 03:58 PM

Hi Kevin,

you've obviously done a lot of work on this site already, and it shows, I like what you've done. just a couple suggestions:
you might want to change the <title> tag inside the <head> area of your HTML since right now it's just displaying the site URL or page name (New Page 1). if you want to change it, just type whatever you want to appear in the browser between <title></title> and put it anywhere inside the <head> tags.
also, are you able to create new email aliases at your domain? if you are, I'd recommend creating seperate addresses for the different types of inquiries (i.e. sales@restored-memories.com, support@restored-memories.com)
the only other thing I noticed (and it's probably because you're still creating it..) but the gallery page is just displaying some text and things (see attachment).
overall, it's looking good and easily navigatable.

- David

KevinBE · #32 02-17-2003, 04:31 PM

Thanks CJ. That's a good site to visit. I'll take advantage of that.

Thanks David, I've caught some of the page headings. Frontpage has some funny quirks. It automatically changes some of the page titles to match the file name and not others.

I hope to get the new and improved version up this evening. I keep running into other things that need changing. Now I have to solve the font proglem.

I am going to have to put the logo on the top right hand graphic. The text area on the left side of the top is the crush zone where the page is allowed to compress. If I put a graphic all the way accross the top the page will not be able to compress down for lower resolutions.

LactoBeeZor · #33 02-17-2003, 04:58 PM

Kevin;

I like the page. To the point. But when I use IE 6 and go to the gallery page I see no pictures and the language is not one I read. Everything below the "contact us" heading is in the old language.
Maybe me, and I do seem to be the only one to have said this...Hum.

FYI this is what I get:

Ipsum lorem
vei illum sat dolor euis mod tincidunt vei auminiure dolor in esse. Ulta ceet dolore magna si napi. Wisi e nim admin im veniam, quis nostrud. In atsvulpate velt esse meleste at semper manet sola.

KevinBE · #34 02-17-2003, 05:17 PM

Hi Lacto. That page isn't being used. I have deleted it in the new and improved version. I hope to upload it tonight. That text is the giberish that the template installs when it creates the page.

KevinBE · #35 02-17-2003, 08:30 PM

OK, the Restored-Memories.com version 2.0 is online. I think most of the mechanical, gramatical, and general content is complete, of course you'll tell me if this is so or not.

The link bar along the top is not the way I want it to be but I couldn't find any better alternative, so for now I'll go with this. I will be studying and looking for a better answer.

I'm also not happy with the gallery examples I have. Microsoft after all these years still hasn't improved the way graphic and text interact. This will just take me more time to figure out.

Anyway, kick the tires and let me know what else needs attention. Thanks in advance.

d_kendal · #36 02-18-2003, 12:40 AM

hey kevin,

I'm still getting the "Ipsum lorem" thing when I go to the gallery page (I've tried clearing the cache and trying different browsers but still no success). also, if I go to the "Main page", I don't have any menu, so I have to go back to your main splash page to navigate to anywhere else. I know how frustrating it can be to try and debug a web site, hang in there!!

- David

BigAl · #37 02-18-2003, 12:49 AM

I think you're onto a winning streak now Kevin. When a visitor doesn't have to think about the navigation, then you've got it right

(Found another spelling mistake

on the Major Restoration page moire needs an i).

David, I don't have the problem that you're having. There is no link to the gallery that I can find in the new pages. Also, there's no longer a splash page - the index page and the home page are now the same (which I like). Are you maybe running thru a proxy server? Could be that the proxy server cache is still hanging on to the old pages??

d_kendal · #38 02-18-2003, 01:14 AM

whoops, my bad, it was my own problem (I only tried Opera and IE) when I went to the page in Netscape, I'm finally seeing the new page, and it's looking good, much improved. you can ignore my last post Kevin!

- David

jrolinc · #39 02-18-2003, 01:29 PM

Kevin

I like your site...and compliment you on your efforts, both in learning and producing a working site. I too am working on building my site and with the sugguestions you're getting, the work you're doing as well as other sites out there, I look forward to getting mine critiqued as well.

Anyhow, here are some thoughts...much different than the first time I looked at it, so here I go.

The "top" navigation bar area is a different height on the Products page than all your other pages, a minor inconsistency.

I (personally) would like to not see the top navigation links when on the main Products page, but then once you click on Restoration, have the 3 navigation links appear. Oh, line them up on the nav bar so that the left margin is above the white text area (make sense?) instead of the left margin of the page.

Remove top navigation links when not on Product/Restoration pages.

In the right Nav bar, make the Product "over" indicator selected anytime you are in either Product/Restoration, Product/Manipulation, or Product/Archive. Currently, it is "dark".

Maybe use Pop-up windows for your larger examples, that way there is just a Pop-up window to close and they clients/customers are still on the Examples pages??

I like someone's earlier reply about putting before/after pics side by side as examples...that works well in all the sites I've seen that are showing actual work done and/or examples.

Anyhow, just a couple of cents worth, but overall I like the look and feel of the site.

Congrats again.

KevinBE · #40 02-18-2003, 05:50 PM

Hi guys, just got home from work. Thanks for the comments and David I'm glad you finally saw the new site. I'm having a similar problem now myself. I just made a change to the horizontal links bar and one link stayed the same even though the copy I pull into the editor shows it right. Oh well.

Thanks for the information BigAl. The spell checker looked right over that spelling of Moire', guess it's not as smart as I thought. Maybe More' is how you spell something. I just made another correction to the links bar accross the top. Jeffery made a suggestion that made sence. I had been looking at it and thinking something wasn't right. I hope this change is an improvement.

Thanks for your comments Jeffery. I have removed the restoration links from the products pages and added a products link bar that only appears on the three different products pages. I tried moving the horizontal bar to the same areas as the other links but it added to the confustion. I am studying the whole links bar situation to see if there is a better way to place them.

I am also looking for ideas on a better way of displaying the gallery of examples. I'm not too happy with what I have now and I wasn't satisfied with Frontpage's gallery function.

Tell me what you think of the new horizontal link bars on the products pages.

jeaniesa · #41 02-19-2003, 01:14 AM

Hi Kevin,

Sorry to chime in late here. I was away this weekend when you posted and had to catch up on lots of stuff when I returned.

First, I want to comment on how "professional" your site looks. I love the layout you've put together!

I did catch a brief glimpse of the initial version you posted and I really like the change you made to remove the splash page and send people directly to your "home" page.

One thing that seems a little inconsistent to me is having your contact info at the bottom of your home page and having a separate "Contact Us" navigation link. If it were me, I'd move the contact information that you have on your first page and move it to your "Contact Us" page. I do like your "feel free to contact Kevin 24 hours per day via e-mail..." I would leave that there, but make the word "contact" a link to your contact page.

Also, you might want to consider adding some sort of "encryption" scheme for your e-mail addresses or you will be setting yourself up for a deluge of spam. (That has been my experience at least.) See this thread for more info. About half-way down the first page of posts Leah posted some very helpful links!

I know that you've gotten a lot of feedback on your sub-menus already and that you've been working on them - and fighting with the lack of flexibility in Frontpage. That said, it did take me a couple of page loads before I realized that the Products sub-menus appeared across the top. (I used the links in the text of the main Products page for my navigation.) Once I did figure out that the sub-menu appeared horizontally above, I was frustrated that I couldn't get to either Manipulations or Archiving once I clicked on the "Basic Restoration" link. Once in the Restoration sub-menu, there's no way to get to Manipulations or Archiving without clicking on the main Products link in the rightside navigation bar. (At least, I couldn't find a way.) This is not good because someone might not think to look further than the "Advanced Restorations" link - esp. if they have a smaller browser window and didn't scroll down the main Products page to see that there was more than restorations. Does that make sense?

I'm interested in the comment you made about Paypal. Can you share a link for more info with me? I'm also in the process of putting my webpage together (and have been pulling my hair out trying to fix a defect in Javascript that wasn't actually a defect.

) So, I'm also following this thread with interest and hope to get some feedback on my own site in the not-to-distant future. Unlike you, I wasn't smart enough to start from a template, so I've had a huge learning curve. I know more about JavaScript now than I ever thought I wanted to.

Thanks for being brave enough to ask for feedback. This has been a great thread so far!

Jeanie

jeaniesa · #42 02-19-2003, 01:20 AM

Forgot to mention... As for ideas about the gallery pages, I'm still working on that myself! I have lots of ideas, but haven't actually tried to implement anything. You might want to search the web for various sites with galleries and see how others have designed them. Then you'll get a feel for what works well for you and what doesn't - both in terms of navigation and implementation. I spent literally hours going through the websites of members here on RP taking notes on what I liked and what I would do differently. It was worth the time I spent doing it though - I learned a lot about how much difference a good presentation of information/images can make!

Jeanie

KevinBE · #43 02-19-2003, 06:02 PM

Hi Jeanie, thanks for your observations. I'm trying to figure out how I can best organize the links. More experience would help me a lot. I have several degrees from the University Of Hard knocks. I hate signing up for classes there but I keep going back for more for some reason.

I agree with you about the contact information. I need to do more research on the contact form. It doesn't produce the information in a very usable format. I guess I need to learn more about it. The Microsoft book I bought "Frontpage 2002 Step By Step" discusses creating the contact page but doesn't even mention how you get the data back. I found a slight mention about it in another book. This is frustrating to say the least, so now do I buy yet another book to learn how to manipulate the data collected with this form.

The information about Paypal is discussed in great detail on their site. That is where I learned about it. It seems to be a much better alternative to developing your own relationship with the credit card companies. They offer all the information about setting up their shopping cart system and supply everything you need to get it up and running. The only fee comes when they collect a payment for you. I'd like to talk to someone using their system to see if it is all they claim. Here is the link http://www.paypal.com/cgi-bin/webscr.../index-outside
There are no fees to open a business account with them.

I am looking into add-in tools to help me with the Gallery. I don't think that Frontpage 2002 will do what I want. I hope to design a gallery page with all the thumbnails set up the way I want them, with the ability to add my comments to the page they will see when they are actually viewing the expanded version of the pictures. Frontpage doesn't allow you access to modify the viewing page at all. Microsoft loves to provide business opportunities for companies that offer aftermarket products that provide services Microsoft software fails to provide, that's a mouth full. I don't want to have to learn any additional software program to complete this project but it looks like I just night have to.

winwintoo · #44 02-19-2003, 06:56 PM

Kevin, I stumbled across this or a similar forum a couple of months ago - when I was thinking of opening a paypay account for Christmas shopping. It opened my eyes.

I did a Google search just now for "paypal bad experience" and got thousands of hits.

I have no personal experience with them, but with that many people complaining, they can't all be making it up.

Margaret

jeaniesa · #45 02-19-2003, 07:15 PM

Quote:

I have several degrees from the University Of Hard knocks. I hate signing up for classes there but I keep going back for more for some reason.

You too? I'm sure we've been in at least one class together!

Before you buy another book on Frontpage, try doing a web search on "forms". (Maybe "Frontpage forms"?) I've found tons of info on the web when I have a specific problem I'm trying to solve/implement.

I'm not using Frontpage, but have used it in the past and have the "Running Microsoft Frontpage 2000" book from MS Press. I assume the contact page is a form. My book mentions an "Options for Saving Results of Form" dialog box. This is accessed by right-clicking anywhere on the form and selecting "Form Properties" from the pop-up menu, then clicking on "Options." If it were me, I'd have the results mailed to me, which you can set up by then clicking on the "E-mail Results" tab. It looks pretty straight forward from there. (I would check the "include field names" box.) Perhaps you've already found this and are having problems beyond this. If not, this might help a little.

Thanks for the link to Paypal. I'll take a look at that.

I know how frustrating it is to have to learn one application after another just to do something that "should" be simple! I guess that's why web designers have jobs!

If it were easy, they wouldn't be needed. (Same with photo restoration/retouching too!) Do you have any programming experience? I think you've probably mentioned this before, but I can't remember. I have to say that I'm really glad that I have a programming background. It has made it a lot easier to go in a tweak the HTML code to do exactly what I want - and to debug Javascripts, etc.

I took a look at your source code to get an idea for how your menus are designed. Did you create the gifs that make up your menu, or did Frontpage create them automatically from text that you typed in to a template? I'm thinking that you could modify the GIFs slightly to make them appear to "indent" a bit, then add more menu items to your menu on the right. Specifically, when you click on the Products menu item, it will bring you to the Products page and the menu on the right will include three indented items below Products: Restoration, Manipulation, Archiving. I think that you tried this and weren't able to get the sub-menu items to indent? What I'm suggesting is that you create the menu with Frontpage, then edit the GIFs that Frontpage uses in PS to make them appear to indent. Not sure if I'm explaining this well enough, so I've attached an example for what I'm talking about. Since I don't know exactly what limitations you ran into before, I'm not sure if this will help or not. But, it's what I would try (and have done something similar before.)

Good luck. Hang in there - you've got a great base to work from!

Jeanie

themanda · #46 02-19-2003, 07:17 PM

Kevin, very good site. Good template choice.

I've got a few comments that I hope will help you.

1. To second David, you need to add unique titles to each of your pages. Beyond being useful when someone bookmarks a page within your site, it will also help you in search engine optimization. Giving each page a unique title such as "Photo manipulation--remove unwanted features or people!" (only an example!!) you're hitting valuable keywords for the unique content on that page.

2. Keywords--they're really not too much of a help or a draw-back in the grand scheme of things, but you can include them on each subpage of your site. Also, the way the coding is handling them is slightly bulky to say the least. I don't know how FP handles raw code manipulation, but right now it's plugging each keyword you have chosen into a unique line in your HTML. This isn't going to hurt you at all with your human audience, but it's basically just junk code that'll slow down spiders and robots. You can consolidate all of your keywords into one tag, like this:

<meta name="keywords" content="geneology Louisiana Lake Charles picture CD photo archive restoration restore photograph">

Your current keywords on your homepage look like this:

<meta http-equiv="keywords" content="geneology">
<meta http-equiv="keywords" content="Louisiana">
<meta http-equiv="keywords" content="Lake Charles">
<meta http-equiv="keywords" content="picture CD">
<meta http-equiv="keywords" content="photo archive">
<meta http-equiv="keywords" content="restoration">
<meta http-equiv="keywords" content="photo restore">
<meta http-equiv="keywords" content="photograph restoration ">

By combining all of your keywords into one tag with no comma deliniation, you're essentially making all of your keywords one big interchangeable searchable phrase. For instance, the way I wrote it you're hitting keywords for "picture restoration", "photo restoration" and "photo restoration in Lake Charles" (just three examples) without gunking up the code.

3. Gallery pages--If you want to be able to manipulate your gallery pages a little more, you can write a basic HTML page in Notepad, and just save it to whatever file you're saving your site in on your computer. It would look something like this:

<html>
<title>INSERT TITLE HERE</title>
<body>
INSERT YOUR PHOTO OF CHOICE
<P>
NOW INSERT YOUR TEXT ABOUT THE PHOTO. "<P>" without the quotes will result in a blank line, while using "<BR>" will result in a line break with no space.
<P>
</BODY>
</HTML>

Be sure to save your file as .htm or .html and you've just built a basic, barebones html file.

jeaniesa · #47 02-19-2003, 07:21 PM

Thanks for that additional link on Paypal Margaret. I know that some sellers on eBay refuse to work with Paypal, but I never knew why. This probably explains at least some of it.

Are there no easy answers any more??

Jeanie

CJ Swartz · #48 02-19-2003, 08:09 PM

Margaret -- thanks for the link to PayPal criticisms (and referrals to criticism-pages re: AMEX, United, Microsoft, Allstate).

I have no direct experience with them other than successful payment for a number of EBay purchases. A non-profit org that I volunteer with has considered signing with them, but has not due to some confusion with just how it would work out -- so now if we talk about signing up with them, I'll have a place to investigate potential problems.

Themanda -- your Keyword advice sounds like a really good idea - thanks for sharing.

KevinBE · #49 02-19-2003, 08:49 PM

Thanks Margaret for the information on Paypal. That information troubles me enough to re-think the notion that I might use them. I went to the BBB online and looked at their records. The BBB kind of danced around as far as an opinion about Paypal. Other members were given a rating in the reports about their business dealings.

For instance according to the BBB over the last 36 months there were 1991 complaints submitted to the BBB about Paypal. I checked on a site I do business with on a regular basis, BH Photo, who had only 37 complaints in the last 36 months. The BBB gave a detailed breakdown on what the complaints were about and how they were resolved. The BBB gave them a rating of "satisfactory". They did none of this for Paypal and failed to mention how they rated Paypal.

I'm not sure how I feel about this. It looks fishy for the BBB to give inconsistant reports but this is what I get from this. Now I am losing respect for the BBB.

If Paypal had 1991 complaints turned in to the BBB how many other customers had problems but didn't want to complain? That's a big step to file a complaint with the BBB. I think that statistics say that only 1 in 3 people complain about poor customer service. The other 2 just go away quietly.

Jeanie, thanks again for the info. I'll look into doing more information surfing. Programming is always something I have done because I have had to, not because I enjoy it. I have forgotten a lot more about programming than I can remember. I used to do a lot with clipper, Dbase, and basic. Back in the good old days?

Wow, in the time I took to draft this message there have been three additional posts.

Thanks themanda, that looks like something I need to do. I am meta tag challenged so that is good information for me. I'll take the advice on the page names ( I assume that this is in the property of the page and not the file name?). Gee I 'm going to have to print this thread so I can remember to touch on all the advice.

Thanks again guys, Hi CJ.

KevinBE · #50 02-20-2003, 02:12 PM

I'm going back and picking up on suggestions from all the previous posts. Jeanie thanks for reminding me about Leah's post on the encryption of the e-mail link. Thanks to you leah, the program worked great. I now have an encrypted e-mail link on my site. I will do more on the contacts form later.

I'm looking for a credit card service site. There are many to choose from with a wide range of cost . Haven't found a keeper yet but I'll keep fishing.

jeaniesa · #51 02-20-2003, 02:32 PM

Kevin, Glad I could help a little.

Re: programming. It's kind of like riding a bike. Once you've done it, you don't really forget how. (You might not like it, but you don't forget!

)

I know what you mean about printing this thread so that you remember all of the suggestions. In fact, I think that I might print it myself so that when I'm finally ready for feedback, all of the helpful contributors to this thread don't have to repeat themselves!

Jeanie

jeaniesa · #52 02-20-2003, 02:58 PM

Kevin,

Don't forget to take a look at the automated Web Photo Gallery function in Photoshop (File>Automate>Web Photo Gallery). I have been able to take the HTML code produced there and insert it into my page quite easily. If PS has a style you like, that might be the easiest way for you to create a gallery.

Jeanie

KevinBE · #53 02-20-2003, 03:26 PM

Hey, thanks for the tip on PS. I never thought about that. I will definately give that a look tonight. Thanks

winwintoo · #54 02-20-2003, 04:05 PM

Kevin, I don't know what you want in a gallery, but, here's a slide show gallery that I'm working on. If I'm not mistaken, PS builds the thing with a front page that has thumbnails on it and then clicking on the thumbnail takes you to a separate page - maybe it's just me, but I don't like the jumping around it does when a new page is loading.

This slide show doesn't have t/n's on it, but they could easily be added instead of the drop-down list or in addition to it. Also, I intend to fix it so that some text about the picture being viewed is displayed under it or beside or something - just haven't gotten around to it - trade ya - you can have this part if I can have some of your improvements

I've tried other programs to make thumbnails but all fall short of what I want - PS does a good job of it.

Let me know if you want to use this code and can't decipher the script - I don't think I commented it very well.

Take care, Margaret

btw: the photos are untouched, scanned copies of old photos that were xeroxed from copies that were made of the originals and then xeroxed again.....I make no apologies for the "quality" of the images.

KevinBE · #55 02-20-2003, 04:29 PM

Hi Margaret, I just took a brief look at the PS photo gallery. It looks like it will do exactly what I want. I don't know why I didn't think of looking at this.

Thanks for your information. I'll take a look at what I can do tonight and see if I can get the look I want. Brief exposure seems to indicate that I will. My site will change again.

winwintoo · #56 02-21-2003, 01:24 PM

Hi Kevin - I seem to recall that you are using Dreamweaver - you might be interested in this DW extension - the Bloom Gallery is very nice.

Take care, Margaret

KevinBE · #57 02-21-2003, 08:01 PM

Hi Margaret, no I'm using Frontpage 2002. I do like those gallery demos though.

I do need some help though maybe you or someone else can help me out on a problem I have now. How do you link out from a page that uses frames? The Photoshop gallery I created uses frames. I am trying to place a link back to the parent page but when I click on the link it displays the new page inside the frame my link was in instead of changing to the page I wanted it to.

The gallery PS created looks real nice. The one I chose displays the thumbnails in a vertical frame on the left side of the page and the viewer is in the bigger right hand frame. I just need to link back to the parent page.

d_kendal · #58 02-21-2003, 08:07 PM

to make a link from a frame load into the entire browser window, you'll need to add the attribute <target="_top "> to your link if I recall correctly, so it would look like this
<a href="http://www.website.com/page.html" target="_top">Link Name</a>

- David

KevinBE · #59 02-21-2003, 08:26 PM

Thanks David, you's a life saver. That worked perfectly. I was kind of stumped there for a while. It's going to be a lot of work, for me anyway, to incorporate the PS galleries into my site but I think it will be worth it. I really like the frames display.

d_kendal · #60 02-22-2003, 04:22 AM

No problem Kevin, glad to help! good to hear that the PS gallery system is working well for you, I'll have to check it out, when I actually get a site up (it's gonna be a while still..) I'm planning on using a system like this, but the problem with that kind of thing is that they can be a pretty big pain to install, you have to deal with various kinds of scripts, databases and libraries on the server, however, if you can get it to work, it's great for being very customizable etc.

- David

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