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By Doug Nelson (doug) on Thursday, July 05, 2001 - 07:36 am:
This is so weenie I'm ashamed to ask, but I gots to know this kind of stuff, so here goes:
How (where, when, etc.) did you first hear about this website?
By Tom Pinnock (thomasgeorge) on Thursday, July 05, 2001 - 08:55 am:
Doug, I was blindly wandering down the electronic Yellow Brick Road and stumbled across your site. Tom
By Cindy McBride on Thursday, July 05, 2001 - 08:40 pm:
Doug, I found this site via Katrin's website for her new book. Glad to have found you, I will be back often.
Cindy
By Ed Ladendorf (ed) on Thursday, July 05, 2001 - 09:08 pm:
At my age, I can't remember how I first got here . But I remember how to get back!
Ed
By kathleen on Tuesday, July 10, 2001 - 07:07 pm:
it's not weenie, it's market research.
katrin eismann's book, and i consider myself a fortunate woman to have found you both.
muchos muchos gracias
kc
By G Mantero on Friday, July 13, 2001 - 10:28 am:
Adobe forums (and I liked it when you'd post the news of a new challenge...just out of curiosity, did your hit rate do anything different when you stopped announcing challenges?)
It's a great site!
By DJ Dubovsky on Saturday, July 14, 2001 - 08:04 pm:
Katrin Eismann seems to be sending a few people your way as I too was researching her book and your link was on her site. I would keep your link there if possible. Maybe even check into having your link listed on the NAAP site to bring in more people.
DJ
By Doug Nelson (doug) on Saturday, July 14, 2001 - 08:11 pm:
Just as I doubt Katrin will be removing my link anytime soon due to my book revue, I also doubt I'll ever get a link on any Scott Kelby site (ie: NAPP) due to another book review
By DJ Dubovsky on Sunday, July 15, 2001 - 03:23 pm:
Yeah, I kind of figured that out after I wrote the message. I found your book reviews after I visited the forum. I do like Scott Kelbys tips, I think they are helpful however it was Katrin's book I bought after reading your review. I was toying with buying her book anyway but I think all the good reviews she got really swayed me. I think I've gathered a thousand tips and tricks but what I am looking for now is substance. I guess reviews can burn some bridges but honesty is always best.
DJ
By Flem Snopes on Wednesday, July 18, 2001 - 09:52 pm:
I found your site by doing a search on Google for "luminosity mask" which I saw referred to in Scott Kelby's Mac Design magazine.
As to your review of Scott's book, I agree with DJ's comment that honesty is best even if you burn a few bridges. However, just saying everything you think doesn't necessarily qualify as honesty. There are critical and objective aspects, even some subjective emotions and impressions in a review that might qualify as 'honesty' and then there are pot shots and attacks which don't. I'm not accusing you of attacking Kelby but much of your review was a bit, well, pointed might be the right word. There was almost a sense of enmity, particularly when it comes to Scott's humor.
Humor is personal and subjective. Scott's humor is cornball and cornball to the point of satire. Sometimes a lampshade on the head _is_ funny because it is a cliche', tradition, cornball standby, etc. I don't find his humor outrageously funny either but it isn't simply corny and as a reviewer you have over simplified it and by doing so you've run the risk of 'not getting it' and exposing yourself as uninitiated in a sense. Scott knows his sense of humor is corny but he knows how to use the cliche' and a bit of sarcasm as well. I don't know Scott from Adam's house cat but even with your review I doubt you've burned any serious bridges and even if you have, you did it with your eyes open.
I also felt you were a little harsh concerning the content. Just to put the cards on the table I'll admit I haven't read the book but right there on the cover it says:
Photo-Retouching Secrets.....The hottest _collection_ of tips, tricks, and techniques....
(Emphasis mine). So, it should come as a surprise to no one that the book is a collection of tips and tricks and should not have been negatively reviewed unless the tips and trick weren't hot, etc. (And I think you said some of them weren't...fine). I can't find any description anywhere (even at Amazon) that the book represents itself as a theoretical, scientific, artistic or even a how-to book on photo-retouching...just tips, tricks and techniques.
As to the amount of white-space in the book. Maybe Scott _is_ selling us bloatware on paper but also keep in mind that Scott is a designer. In as much, his use of white-space might simply be good design, or at least the current design fad. His use of white space in his magazine publications is excellent and reminiscent of the now defunt Adobe Magazine.
After reading your review I was sure it was a book I didn't need. However, the reviews at Amazon are very positive. (The reviewers might all be Scott's friends for all I know.) I think the book I want and need is Ms. Eismann's which has gotten rave reviews everywhere. Yet, any comparison of the two books seems unfair.
Flem
By Kelly on Thursday, July 19, 2001 - 12:13 pm:
I found your site through Adobe forums...Photoshop
I have enjoyed coming to this site eversince : )
Kelly Grant
By Farron McAdams (farron) on Monday, July 23, 2001 - 11:20 am:
Hi Doug,
I found you through a classmate at LVS Online Learning:
Don't know how she first located retouchPRO, but she posted it to the discussion group for our PSP class. Class is "on break" right now, but there are a group of us who have become interested in learning about restoration and we have been hanging around OUR board talking about and watching and working on YOURS. :-)
_^..^_
Farron McAdams
By Sharon Johnston on Wednesday, July 25, 2001 - 01:32 am:
I Doug,
I found you the same way Farron did, through the LVS Online Learning PSP Discusson Board.
Sharon Johnston
By Amanda K Jones on Thursday, August 02, 2001 - 07:22 pm:
Hi Doug,
I came here from Katrin's book site.
This is so weenie I'm ashamed to ask, but I gots to know this kind of stuff, so here goes:
How (where, when, etc.) did you first hear about this website?
By Tom Pinnock (thomasgeorge) on Thursday, July 05, 2001 - 08:55 am:
Doug, I was blindly wandering down the electronic Yellow Brick Road and stumbled across your site. Tom
By Cindy McBride on Thursday, July 05, 2001 - 08:40 pm:
Doug, I found this site via Katrin's website for her new book. Glad to have found you, I will be back often.
Cindy
By Ed Ladendorf (ed) on Thursday, July 05, 2001 - 09:08 pm:
At my age, I can't remember how I first got here . But I remember how to get back!
Ed
By kathleen on Tuesday, July 10, 2001 - 07:07 pm:
it's not weenie, it's market research.
katrin eismann's book, and i consider myself a fortunate woman to have found you both.
muchos muchos gracias
kc
By G Mantero on Friday, July 13, 2001 - 10:28 am:
Adobe forums (and I liked it when you'd post the news of a new challenge...just out of curiosity, did your hit rate do anything different when you stopped announcing challenges?)
It's a great site!
By DJ Dubovsky on Saturday, July 14, 2001 - 08:04 pm:
Katrin Eismann seems to be sending a few people your way as I too was researching her book and your link was on her site. I would keep your link there if possible. Maybe even check into having your link listed on the NAAP site to bring in more people.
DJ
By Doug Nelson (doug) on Saturday, July 14, 2001 - 08:11 pm:
Just as I doubt Katrin will be removing my link anytime soon due to my book revue, I also doubt I'll ever get a link on any Scott Kelby site (ie: NAPP) due to another book review
By DJ Dubovsky on Sunday, July 15, 2001 - 03:23 pm:
Yeah, I kind of figured that out after I wrote the message. I found your book reviews after I visited the forum. I do like Scott Kelbys tips, I think they are helpful however it was Katrin's book I bought after reading your review. I was toying with buying her book anyway but I think all the good reviews she got really swayed me. I think I've gathered a thousand tips and tricks but what I am looking for now is substance. I guess reviews can burn some bridges but honesty is always best.
DJ
By Flem Snopes on Wednesday, July 18, 2001 - 09:52 pm:
I found your site by doing a search on Google for "luminosity mask" which I saw referred to in Scott Kelby's Mac Design magazine.
As to your review of Scott's book, I agree with DJ's comment that honesty is best even if you burn a few bridges. However, just saying everything you think doesn't necessarily qualify as honesty. There are critical and objective aspects, even some subjective emotions and impressions in a review that might qualify as 'honesty' and then there are pot shots and attacks which don't. I'm not accusing you of attacking Kelby but much of your review was a bit, well, pointed might be the right word. There was almost a sense of enmity, particularly when it comes to Scott's humor.
Humor is personal and subjective. Scott's humor is cornball and cornball to the point of satire. Sometimes a lampshade on the head _is_ funny because it is a cliche', tradition, cornball standby, etc. I don't find his humor outrageously funny either but it isn't simply corny and as a reviewer you have over simplified it and by doing so you've run the risk of 'not getting it' and exposing yourself as uninitiated in a sense. Scott knows his sense of humor is corny but he knows how to use the cliche' and a bit of sarcasm as well. I don't know Scott from Adam's house cat but even with your review I doubt you've burned any serious bridges and even if you have, you did it with your eyes open.
I also felt you were a little harsh concerning the content. Just to put the cards on the table I'll admit I haven't read the book but right there on the cover it says:
Photo-Retouching Secrets.....The hottest _collection_ of tips, tricks, and techniques....
(Emphasis mine). So, it should come as a surprise to no one that the book is a collection of tips and tricks and should not have been negatively reviewed unless the tips and trick weren't hot, etc. (And I think you said some of them weren't...fine). I can't find any description anywhere (even at Amazon) that the book represents itself as a theoretical, scientific, artistic or even a how-to book on photo-retouching...just tips, tricks and techniques.
As to the amount of white-space in the book. Maybe Scott _is_ selling us bloatware on paper but also keep in mind that Scott is a designer. In as much, his use of white-space might simply be good design, or at least the current design fad. His use of white space in his magazine publications is excellent and reminiscent of the now defunt Adobe Magazine.
After reading your review I was sure it was a book I didn't need. However, the reviews at Amazon are very positive. (The reviewers might all be Scott's friends for all I know.) I think the book I want and need is Ms. Eismann's which has gotten rave reviews everywhere. Yet, any comparison of the two books seems unfair.
Flem
By Kelly on Thursday, July 19, 2001 - 12:13 pm:
I found your site through Adobe forums...Photoshop
I have enjoyed coming to this site eversince : )
Kelly Grant
By Farron McAdams (farron) on Monday, July 23, 2001 - 11:20 am:
Hi Doug,
I found you through a classmate at LVS Online Learning:
Don't know how she first located retouchPRO, but she posted it to the discussion group for our PSP class. Class is "on break" right now, but there are a group of us who have become interested in learning about restoration and we have been hanging around OUR board talking about and watching and working on YOURS. :-)
_^..^_
Farron McAdams
By Sharon Johnston on Wednesday, July 25, 2001 - 01:32 am:
I Doug,
I found you the same way Farron did, through the LVS Online Learning PSP Discusson Board.
Sharon Johnston
By Amanda K Jones on Thursday, August 02, 2001 - 07:22 pm:
Hi Doug,
I came here from Katrin's book site.
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