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Levitation composite - park

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  • Caravaggio
    replied
    Re: Levitation composite - park

    One problem is that she looks too cutout and the masking has contours that are too hard in places. Hard contours make her look frozen and static and don't suggest the action of levitating. Your masking works in places but in general wherever it looks like there is too hard a separation of the subject from background, the image is less successful.

    The shadows on the pants on the straight leg are way too dark to work well with the background image. In art school I was taught arial perspective or that objects that are closer to the viewer should appear clearer and things that are further away appear less distinct. This would especially be true in an image like this with a foggy atmosphere. In your image the leg that is furthest from the viewer looks more corporal and substantial than the rest of her body because the darkness of the leg makes it stand out too much against the much lighter background.

    Also try to simplify the lighting on the woman. In places it is too busy and interrupted by too many minor shadows that either don't make sense or contribute overall to the image.

    A minor thing that is wrong is that the snow flakes directly in front of her body are too hard and too white and contrast too much with her body. The same with the snowflakes in the lower right corner of the image. The lower right corner of the image is also too clear and could use some sort of a blur. My eye is drawn too much in places to the corners of the image, especially the lower right corner and I think you should try try to draw the viewer's eye to the center of the image.
    Last edited by Caravaggio; 06-13-2015, 12:09 PM. Reason: clarity

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  • klev
    replied
    Re: Levitation composite - park

    Start by gathering reference material. You really really need it. People with far more experience than either of us use it too. Selective dodge and burn misses the point. You'll probably use some of that, but depending on how you do it, it may be insufficient for some tasks. I'm hesitant to tell you to do one thing or another, because your problem resides mainly in judgement. Brightness/contrast and levels are often helpful with shadows. I've used several layers to create them at times. It's not as simple as just feathering one outline. You need to get an idea of how hard the border should be on that shadow, how it should be distorted, appropriate density, contrast, color shift, etc.

    It isn't that simple, but you would improve a lot just looking at subjects that are photographed under lighting closer to what you want to emulate.

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  • petersweden
    replied
    Re: Levitation composite - park

    Originally posted by klev View Post
    That's actually a very common and very bad strategy. It won't get you very far, and it just starts to look like someone painted over it. You have to consider muscle contours and the way things are facing, so it's not always just a feathered mask over a well defined area. I would typically use an adjustment layer for that kind of thing rather than paint in color mode.
    Is a better strategy to use selective dodge and burn where i would lighten parts of her body facing the light source (top left) and darken parts that would have been in shadow (if she had been lit with key light frim top left)?

    Originally posted by klev View Post
    I think she could have used a small amount of highlights on the left, but they're difficult to apply. You also need to consider balance. I'm trying to avoid getting into concrete instructions, because there is somewhat of a process. When you go back to the image after having worked on it, does it still look right?




    I deleted several paragraphs, because I don't think instructions are that helpful. She feels big in the scene, especially as you have trees that are in focus and similar in scale to the girl. It creates a weird juxtaposition for me. Then there's that her shadow is poorly defined in shape, yet so much darker and completely different in color from the other shadows. Naturally the background contrast will differ due to that haze, but this doesn't look right at all.

    Can I ask if any other images inspired this shot, because I think consulting reference material will help much more than I can here.
    Would it help to blur the background? Any advice on creating realistic shadows?

    Unfortunately I do not have reference material.

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  • klev
    replied
    Re: Levitation composite - park

    Originally posted by petersweden View Post
    Thanks for your detailed feedback.

    What is the best way to fix this? Sample the backlight color and then paint over the edges of the model?
    That's actually a very common and very bad strategy. It won't get you very far, and it just starts to look like someone painted over it. You have to consider muscle contours and the way things are facing, so it's not always just a feathered mask over a well defined area. I would typically use an adjustment layer for that kind of thing rather than paint in color mode.

    Originally posted by petersweden View Post
    Do I need to darken the bottom and right side of her to create more contrast?
    I think she could have used a small amount of highlights on the left, but they're difficult to apply. You also need to consider balance. I'm trying to avoid getting into concrete instructions, because there is somewhat of a process. When you go back to the image after having worked on it, does it still look right?


    Originally posted by petersweden View Post
    Is she too high up and too big?
    I deleted several paragraphs, because I don't think instructions are that helpful. She feels big in the scene, especially as you have trees that are in focus and similar in scale to the girl. It creates a weird juxtaposition for me. Then there's that her shadow is poorly defined in shape, yet so much darker and completely different in color from the other shadows. Naturally the background contrast will differ due to that haze, but this doesn't look right at all.

    Can I ask if any other images inspired this shot, because I think consulting reference material will help much more than I can here.

    Leave a comment:


  • petersweden
    replied
    Re: Levitation composite - park

    Thanks for your detailed feedback.

    Originally posted by klev View Post
    She appears completely unaffected by the backlighting in the scene like none of it reaches her, especially on the left where it looks like light breaking through fog and tree cover. Her hair would show it.
    What is the best way to fix this? Sample the backlight color and then paint over the edges of the model?

    Originally posted by klev View Post
    Shadows on her don't match the density of the overall scene, and they aren't very interesting. The shadow is completely wrong.
    Do I need to darken the bottom and right side of her to create more contrast?

    Originally posted by klev View Post
    Her scale doesn't look right when considering its location. Given the scene's perspective she doesn't appear to even be hovering over that point.
    Is she too high up and too big?

    Leave a comment:


  • klev
    replied
    Re: Levitation composite - park

    Originally posted by Tulack View Post
    No, you would not disappoint me. That is what OP did. Estimated it visually.
    You seem to think that is the source of the problem, but it would still be a visual estimate.

    To account for balance issues, you would probably want to do this by channel rather than just compare their average. Even then the acceptability is dependent on whether lighting from the background scene appears to have some effect on the subject.

    As I mentioned this is completely independent of the source intensities in the original scenes. Compositing of video often involves a lot of technical data, but they typically use something much more reflective of scaled intensity measurements rather than an output referred scale.

    Leave a comment:


  • Tulack
    replied
    Re: Levitation composite - park

    Originally posted by klev View Post
    It will probably disappoint you. I would estimate it visually
    No, you would not disappoint me. That is what OP did. Estimated it visually.

    Leave a comment:


  • klev
    replied
    Re: Levitation composite - park

    Originally posted by Tulack View Post
    With PS just use gray layer in Luminosity and Saturation blend mode. For saturation map you can probably use "selective color" I use "luts" because it allows me to do it in one click.

    You can figure out perspective with "vanishing point"

    And how would you do it without luminosity map?
    It will probably disappoint you. I would estimate it visually, because the available data isn't sound. Luminosity in this sense actually conveys very little about the image. It's frequently misused, but it's more likely to be a source of confusion here, especially when values per channel are of greater concern than their average.

    I'm not entirely satisfied with my explanation. I've been trying not to drift too far into technical areas lately. Luminosity in photoshop works fairly similar to an adjustment to the L channel of LAB. That doesn't actually conform to differences in cone response though. For many colors, creating swatches and comparing will result in different color appearance. It doesn't take balance into consideration. RGB uses tristimulus values that represent overlapping wavelength ranges. It doesn't correspond to either of the original scenes, because the coordinate basis we work with depicts things in terms of output values, which may be further constrained by the available hardware.

    I'm a little tired today, but hopefully that makes some amount of sense.

    Originally posted by petersweden View Post
    Thanks, in what way is the lighting in conflict?
    She appears completely unaffected by the backlighting in the scene like none of it reaches her, especially on the left where it looks like light breaking through fog and tree cover. Her hair would show it. Shadows on her don't match the density of the overall scene, and they aren't very interesting. The shadow is completely wrong. Her scale doesn't look right when considering its location. Given the scene's perspective she doesn't appear to even be hovering over that point.
    Last edited by klev; 06-06-2015, 05:12 PM.

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  • Tulack
    replied
    Re: Levitation composite - park

    Originally posted by petersweden View Post
    Interesting, how do you create a HSL-map?

    How should the perspective be changed?
    With PS just use gray layer in Luminosity and Saturation blend mode. For saturation map you can probably use "selective color" I use "luts" because it allows me to do it in one click.

    You can figure out perspective with "vanishing point"

    Originally posted by klev View Post
    You'll want to match brightness levels somewhat to the scene.
    And how would you do it without luminosity map?

    Leave a comment:


  • petersweden
    replied
    Re: Levitation composite - park

    Thanks, in what way is the lighting in conflict?

    Leave a comment:


  • klev
    replied
    Re: Levitation composite - park

    In my opinion the two don't go together that well. I can still offer some comments. I would probably add some highlights on her. They shouldn't be too bright, but some of the backlit portions would have affected her. The lighting on her is in conflict with the background. The scale is certainly off. She's too big relative to the tree. You'll want to match brightness levels somewhat to the scene.

    Leave a comment:


  • petersweden
    replied
    Re: Levitation composite - park

    This is what I originally did with the subject (from top to bottom in layer panel):
    Light glow: layer with yellow sampled from background, manually painted in top left, screen blend mode
    Layer with difference clouds clipped to subject, lighten blending mode
    Light rays from top left: yellow color, manually painted in from top left towards model, soft light blend mode
    Colour model: took copy of background layer, filter/blur/average, color blend mode, 85 % opacity
    Darken right side of model: levels adjustment layer
    Brighten left side of model: levels adjustment layer
    Saturation: added +18 saturation

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  • petersweden
    replied
    Re: Levitation composite - park

    This is the image of the subject without any hue/saturation/levels adjustments or lighting effects added to it. What should I do to make it fit the background?
    Attached Files

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  • klev
    replied
    Re: Levitation composite - park

    I wouldn't worry about extracting maps. Someone either worked on video at some point in their life, or they watch too much youtube. In either case it's not very meaningful in this context, because it is a very poorly defined metric.

    When I look at the girl, I don't see how the light in the intended scene is interacting with her. I don't see anything implied by her intended environment that would lead to that color in her clothing either. It's closest (still not that close) to what you would see with really warm camera flare or the kind of effect you would see with atmospheric haze on distant objects.

    I think you need to consider interaction here and on the other image. It's okay if they feel surreal, but right now their elements just feel disconnected and not very interesting.

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  • petersweden
    replied
    Re: Levitation composite - park

    Interesting, how do you create a HSL-map?

    How should the perspective be changed?

    Leave a comment:

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