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Advice for choosing the right ICC Profile

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  • Color Management: Advice for choosing the right ICC Profile

    Hi dear community,

    I worked in ProPhoto because of the wider color gamut and stuff. But slowly, I have to realize, that it's not the best idea for me.
    Mainly I'm producing my pictures for web or for sedcards and I'm just working with a HP2310ei, which isn't that extremely good when it comes to ProPhoto ICC.

    My question is, would it maybe be an idea to work in Lightroom/Photoshop with the ProPhoto ICC and have the monitor calibrated to adobe RGB 1998 or will that cause loss?
    Right now for the time, I have the feeling that when I have everything calibrated to ProPhoto, the pictures look flat and not that color intensive, but as soon as I just switch my monitor to Adobe RGB the colors start to pop out, even though it's still in Prophoto in PS/LR.

    (See Pics)
    http://www.pic-upload.de/gal-182126/3vjbic/1.html

    Already thanks!

  • #2
    Re: Advice for choosing the right ICC Profile

    You don’t calibrate a display to a working space (like Adobe RGB (1998) ). Since Photoshop 5, the display conditions and the way we edit are files are divorced. Depending on the display type, you couldn’t get close to Adobe RGB anyway (and you don’t have to). The images in ProPhoto RGB should not look flat in ICC aware applications because the working space and the display are divorced. Outside ICC aware applications, it could look awful, you need to convert to sRGB and realize that outside ICC aware applications, what you see an what anyone else sees may or may not match!

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Advice for choosing the right ICC Profile

      Ah, big thanks!
      That was always what I thought, that if you're working with a ICC Profile in PS/LR, you have to use the same for your Monitor. I was totally mistaken!
      Thanks for making the obvious fact even more obvious to me :-)

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Advice for choosing the right ICC Profile

        Originally posted by Pericu View Post
        Ah, big thanks!
        That was always what I thought, that if you're working with a ICC Profile in PS/LR, you have to use the same for your Monitor. I was totally mistaken!
        Thanks for making the obvious fact even more obvious to me :-)
        That's not what Andrew said. Your monitor profile is a separate issue. A calibrated monitor will have a profile unique to that monitor. Your working space (in PS / LR) should not be your monitor profile. It should be a profile best suited to your output needs. Converting to sRGB is a safe choice. much safer than ProPhoto if you want others to see your image similar to what you see.

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Advice for choosing the right ICC Profile

          Originally posted by Pericu View Post
          Ah, big thanks!
          That was always what I thought, that if you're working with a ICC Profile in PS/LR, you have to use the same for your Monitor. I was totally mistaken!
          Thanks for making the obvious fact even more obvious to me :-)
          I think you should read this:

          http://www.adobe.com/digitalimag/pdf...p_colspace.pdf

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Advice for choosing the right ICC Profile

            Pericu, If I may, I believe I understand where the confusion is coming from. Your color space in photoshop is one thing. When you go into "Display properties" "Advanced" on a Windows computer the color profiles you see under "Color Management" are an entirely different thing. Even though you CAN find your photoshop color settings profile and point windows to it, you don't want to. The only way to have a monitor that is truly "calibrated" is to buy hardware specifically designed to calibrate your monitor. This hardware will create a color profile for your specific monitor. I use hardware by Spyder. If I ever replace my Spyder I'd use ColorMunki by Pantone.

            In Lightroom I work in Prophoto (largely because in LR 3 I can't change the default color space, not sure about LR 4) in Photoshop I use AdobeRGB (because it is extremely rare for me to go back to LR for editing after I export to Photoshop) and then for web I convert to sRGB. Hope I understood the question and hope this helps.

            Andrewrodney, great article. Thank you.

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Advice for choosing the right ICC Profile

              Originally posted by crazyfly1 View Post
              Pericu, If I may, I believe I understand where the confusion is coming from. Your color space in photoshop is one thing. When you go into "Display properties" "Advanced" on a Windows computer the color profiles you see under "Color Management" are an entirely different thing. Even though you CAN find your photoshop color settings profile and point windows to it, you don't want to. The only way to have a monitor that is truly "calibrated" is to buy hardware specifically designed to calibrate your monitor. This hardware will create a color profile for your specific monitor. I use hardware by Spyder. If I ever replace my Spyder I'd use ColorMunki by Pantone.

              In Lightroom I work in Prophoto (largely because in LR 3 I can't change the default color space, not sure about LR 4) in Photoshop I use AdobeRGB (because it is extremely rare for me to go back to LR for editing after I export to Photoshop) and then for web I convert to sRGB. Hope I understood the question and hope this helps.

              Andrewrodney, great article. Thank you.

              Exactly! There has been a huge misunderstanding from my side. Thanks to google/forums like these and internet at all I did get an understanding of the theme and I fixed the problem! :-)

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Advice for choosing the right ICC Profile

                Everything you thought you wanted to know about color gamut

                A pretty exhaustive 37 minute video examining the color gamut of RGB working spaces, images and output color spaces. All plotted in 2D and 3D to illustrate color gamut.

                High resolution:http: //digitaldog.net/files/ColorGamut.mov
                Low Res (YouTube): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n0bxSD-Xx-Q

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Advice for choosing the right ICC Profile

                  Andrew, great video thank you! Don't want to hijack the thread but I have a question. If you work in prophoto how do you go about adjusting for print on just a home printer and for web? Do you use proof colors, proof setup, or gamut warning?
                  I've long been a fan of Deke and he says that prophoto has the potential to cause problems in printing.
                  I have to say it kind of baffles me because I'm basically working with colors that I can't see because my monitor can't show them.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Advice for choosing the right ICC Profile

                    Originally posted by andrewrodney View Post
                    Everything you thought you wanted to know about color gamut

                    A pretty exhaustive 37 minute video examining the color gamut of RGB working spaces, images and output color spaces. All plotted in 2D and 3D to illustrate color gamut.

                    High resolution:http: //digitaldog.net/files/ColorGamut.mov
                    Low Res (YouTube): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n0bxSD-Xx-Q
                    Andrew, thanks for the link and the great video!

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Advice for choosing the right ICC Profile

                      Originally posted by crazyfly1 View Post
                      If you work in prophoto how do you go about adjusting for print on just a home printer and for web? Do you use proof colors, proof setup, or gamut warning?
                      Soft proof! Gamut warning is buggy and basically useless! It predates Photoshop 5 when there was no ICC profile support, soft proofing etc. IOW, an old and rather useless and buggy functionality. I show how using it in Lightroom (equally buggy) isn't very effective in this video on soft proofing:

                      http://digitaldog.net/files/LR4_softproof2.mov

                      I've long been a fan of Deke and he says that prophoto has the potential to cause problems in printing.
                      Yeah not really. I'd kind of dismiss this. Now if you wanted to create 'illegal' colors (numbers in ProPhoto that we can't see and thus not a real color), you could probably produce some document that would produce issues on some output device and this would also depend on the output profile. Super saturated blues that might shift magenta when printed (a common issue also due to the problems with Lab). But this is basically a scare tactic that should not apply if you are working with images from say raw data in a good (Adobe) converter. There are colors cameras can 'see' and record we can't but everything possible is done to filter these out. Deke seems to have latched onto Dan M and is now a super LAB fan. There are many issues with LAB that could be said to cause problems in printing!

                      I have to say it kind of baffles me because I'm basically working with colors that I can't see because my monitor can't show them
                      But many printers can! So you just work carefully, ideally on a wider gamut display when dealing with functions like Saturation or Vibrance. I discuss this at the end of the Gamut video.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Advice for choosing the right ICC Profile

                        Andrew, thank you for your reply. I've watched both videos several times and I'm considering and formulating questions. When everything gels (hopefully tonight) and I can put my thoughts together I'll post them.

                        Comment

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