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  • Camera Raw question

    Scenario. I have an image with a deliberately applied strong colour cast which was applied using a lens filter. The client now wants to see the image with natural unadulterated colours. Using the raw file and adjusting the Temp and Tint sliders in ACR I am able to achieve a serviceable result. The client now wants to remove the same cast from 10 other images but cannot supply the raw files. Given that, in PS5, I cannot exactly match the colour cast change I made in ACR but can at least open the tiff in ACR, is it possible to match the raw corrected file albeit with different slider settings. Hope that makes sense.

  • #2
    Re: Camera Raw question

    Hi R,
    I know that you already know these things but knowing what clients tell you before you have seen the images and the potentially vast differences when you actually commit to taking the job on may cause a few hiccups!

    FWIW some random thoughts:

    In theory if all the images have been shot under similar lighting conditions using the same lens filter colour balance changes however applied to the raw should be similar when you bring the TIFF into ACR and apply the same settings.

    The above assumes that raw changes were global without any other local adjustments applied.

    Probably too much to hope for that each image contains a known neutral value to make the job easier ?

    If your WB adjustments got you close enough to acceptable then with luck similar settings should apply to the TIFF, however I guess until you actually see the image content you are dealing with many unknowns

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Camera Raw question

      Thanks Tony - I am always given tiffs to work and this is a 'first'. I roll my eyebrows when I am given pix from a shoot and told to get the colours 'right': having no idea what the target colours are other than 'nice'. Can we go back to prints and trannies please.
      I have just tested the process and was quite pleased with the result. The slider positions were numerically different and I had to tweak the exposure but I was able to get in the zone so to speak. I'm assuming that certain settings present in the raw data were lost in the conversion to tiff? Anyway, I think I can get a bit closer still with finer adjustments but am curious to know if theoretically I could get an exact match. In PS I couldn't get close and a comparable result would involve too much detail masking. I have to sort this out before I start on the detail retouching and hope to get away as few global col mods as possible.
      Cheers

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Camera Raw question

        Not sure I'm clear on the scenario, but in ACR you can save settings as a preset. Reopen the raw file in ACR and save the settings as a preset, then open the TIFFs in ACR and apply the same preset. You can sync the 10 TIFFs (along with the raw if desired) in ACR to make the adjustments to them as a batch.

        Sorry if I'm off on the scenario.

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Camera Raw question

          I've just tried that Flash. It could well be me missing something here so I'll show you my steps. (NB this is a test at the moment so ignore the logic of the exercise!)

          1) Photographers original file opens automatically in ACR.
          2) To remove a cast I adjust the Temp and Tint then 'Save Settings'.
          'Open Image' and save as tiff for working in PS.
          3) I now open the very same image which has arrived from the art director (includes the cast). This is just a tiff and not a raw version.
          4) I open the AD's tiff file from Bridge then 'Open Camera RAW'
          5) Load preset Settings but image dramatically burned out.
          6) Ignoring the presets, I move the Temp and Tint sliders but different adjustments are required to match the original ACR corrective settings. Not problematic in itself as long as the new settings works across all the tiffs.

          That's it! I'm not sure if it's me or the process so if you can shed light on this I'd appreciate it. Cheers.

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Camera Raw question

            I think that the initial calculations in ACR are internal using ProPhoto colour coordinates and a linear gamma of 1.0 to match closely to a cameras raw output.

            What we see on screen is a rendered image again I think based on sRGB TRC with a 2.2 gamma.

            When we export as Tiff or JPEG then a conversion has to be made by ACR to the particular colour space we choose to match what we see on screen. In this conversion what was done in ACR is lost as only the rendered image is relevant.

            So any adjustments made to the raw image and saved as presets will not be useful to an imported Tiff as it has already been rendered and output into a particular colour space which ACR will honour assuming the profile is embedded.

            Making a preset based on one of the TIFF's however should be useful.

            Of course I could be way of the mark with my explanation of what is happening and perhaps if A.R. is around he can correct any wrong assumptions I have made

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            • #7
              Re: Camera Raw question

              That makes some sense, Tony. Repairman, what's the profile on the TIFs. And how far apart are they visually from the raw as originally provided?

              I guess I'm thinking that if, as provided by the client, the TIFs look close to the original raw, then similar ACR settings might suffice. But if they start far apart, and the TIFs are in a much smaller space, like sRGB or CMYK, then the likelihood of the same preset working is diminished.

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              • #8
                Re: Camera Raw question

                Thanks chaps. I am ashamed to say I haven't actually looked at the raw and the tiff with their attendant cast's side by side which is a good point: the photographers always send RGB and the AD often converts to CMYK. I'll check that out and report back tomorrow. My (purely intuitive) understanding of the problem is/was that the files are the product of different start points (raw vs tiff) and that an ACR preset will not translate directly to a tiff.
                On a related note, when using ACR, Capture1 etc do you just adjust the sliders until you are happy with what you see ( trusting your display) or are there other factors you consider?

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                • #9
                  Re: Camera Raw question

                  On a related note, when using ACR, Capture1 etc do you just adjust the sliders until you are happy with what you see ( trusting your display) or are there other factors you consider?
                  I always "check the numbers" first i.e. RGB or LAB values of relevant pixels (e.g. neutrals, greenery, skin etc.). If those are OK AND I am happy with what I see, then I consider the colours done.
                  If the numbers are good but the picture looks wrong, then artistic judgement prevails.
                  It's amazing how often I think a picture's colours are good, until I check and correct "by the numbers". The human eyes and brain are very deceptive, even with a well-calibrated monitor.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Camera Raw question

                    Originally posted by Repairman View Post
                    Using the raw file and adjusting the Temp and Tint sliders in ACR I am able to achieve a serviceable result. The client now wants to remove the same cast from 10 other images but cannot supply the raw files.
                    That's going to be problematic. The data (raw vs. rendered) is vastly different. Keep in mind, a raw file really isn't a color image (yet), it's essentially grayscale data. The processing therefore is vasty different as is the data. Having the raw's would be a piece of cake. That said, I'd still try to correct this in ACR rather than Photoshop at least in terms of global color and tone corrections. But there are corrections you simply can't make as you did with the raw data. The settings that produced good results from raw data will not necessarily be close on the rendered images. But if you are able to correct one rendered image, copy and paste all those settings to the other 9 and most of the work is done.

                    Maybe you can push the client to 'find' the raw's. Or at least let them know in the future, the raw's are gold.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Camera Raw question

                      Originally posted by Repairman View Post
                      Thanks chaps. I am ashamed to say I haven't actually looked at the raw and the tiff with their attendant cast's side by side which is a good point: the photographers always send RGB and the AD often converts to CMYK. I'll check that out and report back tomorrow. My (purely intuitive) understanding of the problem is/was that the files are the product of different start points (raw vs tiff) and that an ACR preset will not translate directly to a tiff.
                      On a related note, when using ACR, Capture1 etc do you just adjust the sliders until you are happy with what you see ( trusting your display) or are there other factors you consider?
                      That sounds rough. If I had to do such a thing on a tiff, my first inclination would be channel mixer. Depending on the kind of filter, it still may come out odd compared to what it would be if shot without the filter even on the raw without more than once pass. I just find due to the way it works, it's easier for me to make some of the more extreme adjustments by specifying percentages of the input channels to create the adjusted version of those channels.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Camera Raw question

                        Thanks for your valuable comments folks. Before going down this route I had discussions with the AD about the project and his preference was for me to fix it. There is often a bit of politics in Agencyland and I often find it is better to 'grant graciously that which cannot be refused'. I have been tinkering this morning and can get pretty close in one hit so I'm inclined to make small tweaks in PS later when getting down to the pixel shifting work. Klev, I have never used channel mixer for colour mods other than B/W conversions so if you can point me to a demo I'd appreciate it.
                        Some questions! After making a change in ACR, saving the file and returning to the Bridge 'Content' panel, each browse icon I click on, whether I open the file or not, is converted to the last ACR colour mod which is irritating - how do I disenable that feature. When I open ACR, I want to close the Bridge panel but it remains on the desktop. Can I close it down and how? Also, when using the ACR tools and the previous unwanted settings are still visible on my new image; what menu control 'resets' for a fresh start?

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Camera Raw question

                          If I knew a good demo on it, I would point you to it. The same goes for if I find one later. I've found it to be effective for reasons of detail preservation compared to certain other options when it comes to making very large changes. There are certain details that must be adhered to. It won't necessarily accommodate color differences between shadows, midtones, and highlights that well when mapped to a new range, so it's not necessarily a one step color change You have to be careful with it, but it can be effective for significant color changes.

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