camera color profiling

[ozzo]

hi folks. need some experience knowledge... i have a possibility to create home made icc profiles for my camera (due to the fast i work with capture one). my inspiration was the theory behind rawdigger (standart curves for preview jpgs in camera or raw converter aswell). i think after creating one test profile i do have better control of my dynamic range (raws with prewview jpgs in my camera which look blown out, look good in raw converter with new icc profile...). my question would be should i make an icc profile for each of my lences?:-) (i do have 9 of them...) with best wishes, ozzo:-)

[Tony W]

Re: camera color profiling

Yes, you should ideally make an ICC profile for each lens coupled with each camera body you own.

[ozzo]

Re: camera color profiling

thanks!:-)

[Guest]

Re: camera color profiling

Are you using profilemaker to generate icc profile? I also would like to create icc just wondering what software will do that and how expensive it is.

[Tony W]

Re: camera color profiling

..... I also would like to create icc just wondering what software will do that and how expensive it is.

One that I know of is Lumariver Profile Designer which will produce .dcp and ICC profiles. The cost 100 Euro.

http://www.lumariver.com/#LumariverPD

[ozzo]

Re: camera color profiling

€120,- as an introduction price for the Kind a pro Version, if you wonna only icc, it about 60-70... and ist not really like professional good. guys are good mathematicians for sure. one thing i experienced was - i ve created a Project and was mixing around with different adjustment, but later i saw These were in some way additiv, so i had wrong Colors in shadows etc. and i did a bit more then just icc Profile. the thing is you has to use tifs without any curve embed and no color correction and outputing the file from raw you has to use camera embed Profile, which make your tif look a bit underexposed as you used to see it due to standart Interpretation curves. so the Problem would be - your target has to be lighted correct (white about 245/245/245). so i first made seconic profiles of my lences with jpgs without Color correction, linear curve and embed camera profile and after that made a target shoot with These profile camera adjustments. the result - though my preview jpgs look overexposed, in raw converter it look fine, almost no over or underexposed pixels. and colors look much realistic i wouldnt believe if i didnt see that. i do have three color targets...

[andrewrodney]

Re: camera color profiling

First, you should know building ICC camera profiles is a very difficult task! And you can't do this with raw data! ICC profiles require rendered data (a TIFF for example processed from the raw). DNG camera profiles are a different beast and built for a raw processing workflow. They are applied with raw data in the raw processing pipeline. Vastly different and based on the raw converter workflow. DNG camera profiles are white balance agnostic, like raw data. ICC profiles are not! So just White Balance applied to the image to create the ICC camera profile plays a role in that profile! Not with DNG (.dcp) profiles. C1 in the past supported DNG's just so-so, hopefully they have fixed their issues and updated the DNG spec they can easily find and follow.

The concept that you need a profile, DNG or ICC for each lens sounds totally ridiculous to me based on 20+ years of creating and using profiles from dozens of products but if someone cares to provide colorimetric proof one needs individual profiles (ICC or otherwise), they should present their data! Profiles have NOTHING to do with DR; exposure can and the one knowledgeable person you can ask is Iliah Borg who wrote that wonderful product you're using (RawDigger). See:

https://photographylife.com/how-to-use-the-full-dynamic-range-of-your-camera

IF you are shooting raw+JPEG (I hope not), the exposure for one is wrong. Maybe that's why you see the JEPGs as you do; you've optimally exposed for the raw, which blows out the JPEGs the camera creates (either a JEPG separate from the raw or the embedded JPEG in the raw). No profile will change that IF that's your goal.

[andrewrodney]

Re: camera color profiling

Oh, if you're interested in DNG camera profiles and an example that you only need ONE per illuminant (let alone multiple per lens):

Everything you thought you wanted to know about DNG camera profiles:
All about In this 30 minute video, we’ll look into the creation and use of DNG camera profiles in three raw converters. The video covers:

What are DNG camera profiles, how do they differ from ICC camera profiles.
Misconceptions about DNG camera profiles.
Just when, and why do you need to build custom DNG camera profiles?
How to build custom DNG camera profiles using the X-rite Passport software.
The role of various illuminants on camera sensors and DNG camera profiles.
Dual Illuminant DNG camera profiles.
Examples of usage of DNG camera profiles in Lightroom, ACR, and Iridient Developer.

Low Rez (YouTube):

http://youtu.be/_fikTm8XIt4

High Rez (download):
http://www.digitaldog.net/files/DNG%...le%20video.mov

[Tony W]

Re: camera color profiling

...The concept that you need a profile, DNG or ICC for each lens sounds totally ridiculous to me based on 20+ years of creating and using profiles from dozens of products but if someone cares to provide colorimetric proof one needs individual profiles (ICC or otherwise), they should present their data! ...

Andrew, I believe you are correct and the notion of one ICC profile per lens is probably very flawed. Not at all sure where I picked up this idea but suspect it was from net chatter such as

https://www.photo.net/discuss/threads/how-to-icc-profile-a-camera.432605/

I have only created DCP camera profiles and tweaked them if necessary in the Adobe DNG converter to my liking

C1 in the past supported DNG's just so-so, hopefully they have fixed their issues and updated the DNG spec they can easily find and follow.

I cannot use C1 as my camera not supported but AFAIK C1 is not able to use DNG (.dcp) camera profiles but has to have ICC profiles, but of course does support native camera DNG's. Are you saying that C1 does now support DNG camera profiles?

[Guest]

Re: camera color profiling

Just out of curiosity, could I be shooting jpg in camera and build icc camera profile anyway? I would then assign the icc profile and convert to working profile in PS.

(It could be jpeg or a tiff from dcraw)

[Tony W]

Re: camera color profiling

Why would you want to produce an ICC camera profile for PS when the native camera profiles for Adobe products are DCP obtained from DNG files ?

C1 uses ICC and I believe that certain conditions need to be met and one is that the file should be an 8 bit TIFF for Capture One

http://www.colourspace.xyz/creating-camera-profiles-for-capture-one/

[ozzo]

Re: camera color profiling

marameo - jpg is already compressed data from your sensor using a curve/some profile and once you ve saved jpg it is not reversible.
about profiling every lense - i thought/heard some lenses do have their own toning, just a tiny bit maybe, different contrast behavior due different ways of multicoating or not, how many lense groups etc. etc... i do use some classic retro lenses with less glas groups comparing to modern ones, like nikkor 85/2, 105/2,5 and some modern aswell, voigtlaender 58/1,4, schneider kreuznach 50/2,8 PC, cz planar 35... so i thought i better ask before i do some unnecessury work on it. i did read some articles and watched some videos about rawdigger/fastrawviewer. in one of the videos the author was explaining that most cameras do correct in about +/- 0,3 steps the embed jpgs (i shoot only raw) and he compared the hisograms looking for over- and underexposed pixels in both jpg and raw (with rawdigger) which were different...

[Guest]

Re: camera color profiling

It could be a tiff 8-bit full size (Adobe RGB) from DPP Canon with a linear curve. I think the assign profile is what C1 does internally.

[andrewrodney]

Re: camera color profiling

Just out of curiosity, could I be shooting jpg in camera and build icc camera profile anyway?

Utterly pointless. The camera converts the raw into a standard RGB working space (sRGB or Adobe RGB (1998)).
If you can avoid shooting in JPEG!

[andrewrodney]

Re: camera color profiling

Are you saying that C1 does now support DNG camera profiles?

If they support DNG correctly and fully, they should.