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Beginner woes...

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  • Beginner woes...

    I've been on here for some time and the more I watch the more discouraged I become. Mind you that doesn't mean that I'm going to stop trying but everytime I see your pictures come out so well, and you talk about this techique or use of that tool, I think that I may never come to a place of excellence. (Challenge 81 was one of my best works) Still there are layers and masks, filters and actions.... so much it's mind boggling. Isn't there one very good place of information to start as a beginner, in language that can be understoond?

  • #2
    Hi KlassyLady:
    I am so glad you posted what you have. I feel the same way, and have for a long time now!! I want to say that... (and this is not just a kiss up) .. Except for one instance I have been helped by the nicest people on any forum I have been a part of. People are so willing to help and do all they can to do so. The problem for me and I bet a lot of other newbies who come here seeking help is not really understanding a lot of the functions in photoshop they offer as solutions to completeing the work, where they are, and how they may be applied to certain works we wish to do in photoshop.

    This place amazes me, the work being done amazes me. I do not think anyone will disagree with me that Flora is one of the most talented users of photoshop and does some pretty amazing restores of old pictures. Not to mention her wonderful personality and her willingness to help when no one else was able to post a reply to me ..there she was with one!! I see plenty of talented people here..Vicki , PhilBach, Ro , Ken, Danny, Cassidy just to name a few. Please forgive me I can not remember all the names as I post but there are plenty more. Not to forget my friend chrishoggy whom I have pm'ed on several occassions always receiving a kind and informative reply.

    I so want to learn to do as good as the fokes here. You might say..well go find tutorials read..Well that does not always work for me..I am a hands on learner and then need to pose questions if stuck. And why would I want o travel to other sites when this one is inhabited by so many incrediable talented people??

    I have asked before for a real beginners forum to open up for people like KlassyLady and myself whom want to learn here... from the best... Make it a starting place for new people to come and get a good footing and then be able to move on to the other forums and work out of them!! How can someone work on something which has posted ..add a adjustment level ..when we do not even know where to find it or understand it if we do know where it is!! I think I have stayed because I alway hope something like this might open and I want to be the first person in line to be there. Could this possibly happen?

    I bet this will open a big discussion both pro and con ..but I finally got the nerve to speak up about what I feel everytime I come here..admiration but mostly FRUSTRATION not being able to do what people post to do to achieve the results I want!! Mind you I am not an idiot and have some knowledge of photoshop and can do some things but others I am unfamiliar with and can not!!

    I do not know if this makes sense to anyone but me..but I did have to post what has been in my mind and heart for a long time now!! Thanks for your TENDER responses in whatever you are feeling about my words!!

    Most of all Thanks KlassyLady for having the courage to share your frustrations as it gave me the courage to do the same!! Neb


    • #3
      Nebgranny: Looks like our posts were near the same time, so another response.

      I can't disagree with anything you said. What I find most frustrating is that I don't have or use the "Cadillac of editors", i.e. Photoshop. Indeed, there are many editors represented in these forums. My editor of choice is Ulead's PhotoImpact right now. It is very capable (as I hope I've shown), but the terminology is somewhat different from PS and it seems not be one of the more prevalent tools. I've used it for about 4 years now and I'm very comfortable with it. In addition, being a disabled retiry, living on Social Security, I'm not in a position to afford PS. And I'm interested more these days in learning and doing the tasks rather than spending my precious time on learning the idiosyncracies of another editor. I mean I really don't know what an adjustment layer is either. Translating my desires and the responses is a major stumbling block, but I try very hard to extrapolate any information offered.

      I'd definitely vote for a "beginner's forum". But would it become somewhat of the blind leading the blind? For some reason I don't think the more knowledgable/experienced folks would spend much time there. Teaching is difficult, especially in a virtual community where there are no one-on-one relationships; where experience is unknown; where tool availability is unknown; where "show me" is a bit cumbersome.

      It is definitely a conumdrum for those just getting their feet wet in such a diverse vocation, especially if they want to get on the fast track. I'm looking forward to what other have to say about the issue.


      • #4
        Thank you all

        Never have been a quiter and have appreciated all the thoughts here, especially Neb.... Thanks girl!!

        I do plan on getting the Katlin books. And I am reading the turtorials that were listed. If I can sing Italian and German, I will be able to do this too.

        I will continue to learn and read from those of you here at RetouchPro, because this one of the best forums I've seen. All grown-ups here and that I like very much!!


        • #5
          Hi Neb and KlassyLady,

          I can understand both of you more than you can imagine .... As a PS self-taught person, on opening it after installing it for the first time, I thought I had landed on Mars for what I could understand!!!! ....

          English isn't my mother tongue so I tried to get an Italian version .... well, let me assure you it didn't help me one bit .... I could understand the explanations very well in both languages, but definitions and terminology were unknown to me ... no matter in what language ....

          I started hunting the Internet searching for help and landed by chance at .... There I found (in my opinion) the most detailed 'beginners' help of all .... Snapshots of Tools, Brushes etc. accompanied the explanations on 'what', 'where' and 'how to' ... I took my first PS steps following the Tutorials found there .... I know, most of it was written for PS 7, but Tools and basic definitions and usage haven't changed much, so, I still think it's a great help to get familiar with the 'basics' even if you are 'lost' in a higher version of PS or, maybe, even for 'translating' Tools and functions for adapting them to other Software...

          I know it is very frustrating when, reading tutorials, tips etc., you realize that the explanations given imply that you should know the exact path to get there, on the other hand, if for every tutorial one should take snapshots of each tool being used, its location and, possibly, describe its functions, the whole procedure would become a never-ending affair ...

          RP is definitely one of, if not THE best place to be in the field ... even if I have to admit that, in spite of knowing a great part of PS like my own pockets, I simply don't understand some explanations given by members with a much higher level of knowledge than I have and will ever have...

          I'll talk to Doug to see if it's possible to add an 'Absolute Beginners' Forum ... even though, unfortunately, my life rhythm and localized technical problems (regular power cuts here in SA for one...) can influence the regularity of my presence at RP ...

          In the meantime here are some links from a google search for PS for beginners:

 ... this site is about a 'Training CD' but you have very good demo files to be seen with the QuickTime plug-in ...

          Hope this helps...

          P.S. ....thanks for your kindness Neb and Craig!!!!

          Last edited by Flora; 03-03-2006, 04:22 AM.


          • #6
            Flora and Ken : Thanks so much for the post and information posted . Going to go to the sites , as a matter of fact did go to the Beginners one Flora and it is for 7 and I have CS2 but bet they are pretty much the same ??

            Flora , about the Help File is not at the bottom just is not there!! I do not have a clue as what happened to it!! Ken posted a site to go to to fix it , but I am afraid to try!! Thanks to All. Neb


            • #7
              I agree. I found some of the info on sites Flora suggested to be extremely helpful. One on curves was especially informative. Thanks, y'all!


              • #8

                ... so glad you found helpful info in some the links .... even more so because, for the moment, my quest for an 'Absolute Beginners' Forum hasn't been very successful ...

                In the meantime, I think our Education Forum which offers help for "Books, courses, other websites. Discussion of anything to do with learning." is the best place to use ...


                • #9
                  One of the "truths" that I have always subscribed to is that the teacher always learns more than the student. My experience here at RTP has reflected this exactly. Although I did know PS pretty well before posting here, I cannot even measure how much I have learned by tackling the questions and problems of others.
                  Originally posted by kraellin
                  but a mix of student levels and teaching levels. so, it's sort of like the old schools where all the grades were in a single classroom and the students in the higher grades were expected to help the younger ones.
                  Exactly! Taking your example...For this to work well - the second graders should teach the first graders, the third teach the second, and so on......

                  Moral: If you see a question that you think you can answer - go ahead! If you are right, you have helped someone and confirmed your knowledge (and feel good ). If you are wrong, then you will end up learning something new when a "third grader" comes along.

                  I'm rooting for the "Absolute Beginners"* forum along with Flora . Not only for the beginners to have a "safe" place to post their questions, but also for the "second graders" to have a place to start their teaching careers.

                  (* maybe with another name - RetouchPRO 101?)
                  Last edited by byRo; 03-08-2006, 05:02 PM. Reason: deleted commentary from other thread


                  • #10
                    I'm rooting for the "Absolute Beginners"* forum along with Flora . Not only for the beginners to have a "safe" place to post their questions, but also for the "second graders" to have a place to start their teaching careers.
                    i havent looked recently with the 'beginners' idea in mind, but dont we already have some of this on retouch? also, if this were to be implemented here, you'd need a beginners for photoshop, beginners for paint shop pro, painter, photo impact, art rage, deep paint, impressionist, etc. etc. you just cant really learn ps from psp or vice versa. some things translate, some dont.

                    also, there is no reason that 'sister' sites cant be put up by folks other than doug nelson. well, i might have to qualify that a bit. certainly you'd want to coordinate with doug for a true 'sister' site. for those that may not know what i mean by 'sister' here, i'm just talking about a sort of affiliate site. you could liken it to the children companies of a bigger company like general electric which owns other companies like rca or nbc. a sister site would be one closely associated with the parent or original, but might have a slightly different purpose or theme. in this particular case it would be a more basic learning site and perhaps a bit more structured in its learning/teaching regimen.

                    either way, done on retouchpro, or done as a sister site, it's a good idea. i dont have the current knowledge to handle forum software, nor is my uplink speed on my own site good enough for a larger sister site type operation, but i'd certainly be willing to help out in some other capacity.

                    and just as a side note to all this, i believe retouchpro's database must be getting huge by now. i've noticed a bit of slowing now and again at times. this could just be internet traffic woes, but i have seen where some forum databases get so large that they begin to bog the site down. so a sister site might well be the way to go here.



                    • #11
                      Absolute Beginner's Forum

                      I'm afraid that I was the beginning of the hijacking and thankful for all that has been said and will be.

                      Three years ago I lost my full time job (which I am now thankful for) and I started down the road I am now. Most of my years were spent raising my children and had only returned to work to help and keep busy. I had only worked a short time before the company folded. During that time my friend opened his doors to help him learn the editing field using Adobe Premier Pro, which I still enjoy doing. But during his teaching time he found himself in major surgery 3 times. I thought he couldn't top it after the first but he managed to top that one by having a quad bypass. Then it was a year and 1/2 before the aortic aneurysm was removed. I sat with him when his wife was at work and it was during that time I started working on pictures because he has to sleep to heal.

                      I found I loved working on pictures. But like most things I started at the back of the book figurativiley speaking... I have recently purchased Katrin Eismann's book (2) and will work on them but it is through RetouchPro,that I have grown.

                      It's important to have people to talk to. You all are wonderful. I won't name names, though I could, but know that I appreciate that have helped.

                      This is my morning reading material and every opportunity that I have I come here to read and learn. My Adobe library started out with one action... then two, well you get the idea.

                      Flora, I would be honored to be in the "Absolute Beginners Class". And when I graduate I will have the opportunity to give back what has been given... so if it happens, COUNT ME IN!!



                      • #12
                        beginner woes...

                        I've been following this thread, first for the interesting discussion re: colorization, then the questions posed regarding beginners here and how best to address their questions and concerns. As a quasi beginner myself (I know just enough to wander off and get realllllly good and lost ), I have admittedly been at a loss when trying to follow some of the threads and explanations as they were beyond my limited knowledge. No matter, I read anyway figuring eventually it's all going to start to come together and if I ran across a term I didn't know, well hey, the internet is fabulous for that; a quick googling and I was on my way again armed with just a little more knowledge than last time!
                        Originally posted by byRo
                        Exactly! Taking your example...For this to work well - the second graders should teach the first graders, the third teach the second, and so on......
                        I'd say we already have the 3rd graders teaching the 2nd, 1st and so on, it's just that sometimes the 3rd graders are talking amongst themselves, not realizing the 2nd graders are listening in and don't understand some of the "big words"!! I think the key is ask questions, ask questions, ask questions - whether you ask google or one of the 3rd graders. Admittedly, I have thought, "ugh, I hate to post to ask what that means. I KNOW that's something simple." so I googled, but I really doubt anyone here is going to bite someone's head off for even the simplest of questions. On the contrary, everyone has seemed only too glad to help when asked! Also, in my quest for answers or acquiring a basis to understand the more complicated threads here, I came across numerous sites that offer information along those lines. There is no shortage of photoshop tutorials out there and many of them are of the beginner variety. I'd be happy to pass along what I've found if anyone cares to have those links, but it was just a matter of conducting a search.

                        Wow, that was a bit more wordy than intended! Although I've been of the lurking variety here, I do want to say thanks for all the great information through the give and take between the people here. It really is a wonderful site and I'm learning so much.


                        • #13
                          Hi everybody,

                          Rô is right...
                          This thread seems to have been somewhat hijacked - but seeing as the subject is interesting, I'll jump in too!
                          .... But since this topic has drawn a lot of interestI think it's only right to put it on its own Thread! ....

                          I'm going to split the Threads ... jus keep your finger crossed!!!


                          • #14
                            Like Lonnie, I too, use PhotoImpact as my primary editor and I really love its ease of use and efficiency.

                            I really enjoy the benefits of PS brushes, though, that PI does not offer (that I can see, so far!). I've learnt to make my own brushes as well as collect free brushes all round the Net.

                            If there were some very simple and basic PS tutorials, I'd love them. I have tried some that I've found here but they are nearly a foreign language to me.

                            As far as books and videos go, due to my family and work committments, my reading time is limited which is why I've looked for forums online that might cater to others like myself.

                            I'd love to see a very beginners section here.



                            • #15
                              I'm back ....

                              It took me a while but I managed to split the Threads, so, no need to worry about hijacking anymore Candice!!

                              My idea of adding a new Beginners Forum wasn't a big success mainly due to the fact that we already have such a Forum ... I'm talking about our Education Forum .... So, absolute beginners, intermediate and, why not, advanced as well, can post their questions about Tools, Techniques and Methods there ....

                              In our Education Forum you can also find help for software other than Photoshop and, if the software you are using isn't in the list, you can always add it to it ....

                              I couldn't agree more with Rô about the fact that the best way to learn something is by teaching it ... starting from whatever Level you are ...

                              As Gina rightly pointed out, ... it might happen that "the 3rd graders are talking amongst themselves, not realizing the 2nd graders are listening in and don't understand some of the "big words" " ... but I'm sure that when asked the 3d graders will gladly explain the big words ...

                              Originally posted by Gina_D
                              Also, in my quest for answers or acquiring a basis to understand the more complicated threads here, I came across numerous sites that offer information along those lines. There is no shortage of photoshop tutorials out there and many of them are of the beginner variety. I'd be happy to pass along what I've found if anyone cares to have those links, but it was just a matter of conducting a search.
                              ... That's a very good tip! ... And any link you could pass on would be greatly appreciated!!
                              Well .... I think it has started already ... We just have to remember to post in the right place!

                              P.S. Gina, if I haven't done it yet, Welcome to RP and thanks!!


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