Posting Your Image and Works Etiquette

[Craig Walters]

i've done numerous retouches, restores and photo art on retouchpro.com. i enjoy it. however, there is something that rankles me just a bit from time to time. someone comes in, posts needing help with an image, goes away for a while, comes back and gives maybe a general 'thanks, all', picks up their copy(s) of the posted work and that's it.

now, there is actually a policy here on RP about giving out freebies (see the FAQs). we're not here to provide you with free work. most of us really dont mind doing it. it's often good practice. but, nonetheless, it's against the policy of this site to just freeload off the good people here doing their practicing and volunteering.

but, that's not even what rankles me. i do a lot of 'freebies'. what bothers me is someone getting a half a dozen pieces done on their image and then just giving out a generic 'thanks, guys'. that's just plain rude to me. i am not 'guys'. i am me. i EXPECT a thank you, even if the work i did was horrible. i expect at least a civil 'thanks craig for taking the time to try to fix my image'. THAT'S my payment here. and i really do EXPECT that! and, i expect that for everyone doing the work. each person did something. each person tried to help. these are individuals, not 'guys'.

and even worse is the person who doesnt even bother with a thank you at all! these are actually fairly rare, but it does happen. i do tend to note those individuals and they get nothing from me from then on. period.

and, as i stated earlier, you, the person posting the image, are expected to be attempting to fix the image yourself. we know some of you have no such intention and we're actually pretty generous people here who tend to look the other way a lot of the time. but, nonetheless, you are expected to be learning yourself. this is not a free lunch clinic. so, with that in mind, i also expect to see you post some of your own results and i reserve the right to delete all posts and threads not demonstrating such.

now, if you dont have an image to post, maybe due to copyrights or some other reason, but just want to ask how to do a certain thing, that's fine. it's always easier when we can see the image, but i do understand that sometimes that's not possible.

i also expect folks to post images that are large enough to be worked on. one of the common requests and maybe the most common request here is, 'have you got a larger image?'. i see that one all too often. you shld get used to thinking in pixels not inches. inches can be deceiving when you start factoring in resolutions. a 9 x 12 inch isnt always 9 x 12. but a 900 x 1200 pixel image is always 900 x 1200. so, one requirement is, learn HOW to post.

now, i know the file size limitation here is rather limiting at times, but nonetheless, a decent sized image can usually be obtained and posted and still make it within the 100k (200k for patrons) limit. 800 x 600 (or vice versa) is a good size to shoot for. it doesnt have to be exactly that. you can be off by quite a bit, but once you post your image, LOOK AT IT! can you see it very well or does it look like a postage stamp? it is MUCH better to have 1600 x 1200 image at 72 dpi than a 400 x 300 image at 100 dpi.

and if you just cant get your image large enough to view easily here, try posting at some place like imageshack and then posting a link to it. we prefer to have them here so that they are always here for the future, but if there's no other way, use a remote location and provide a link.

basically, all of this boils down to courtesy. say 'thank you!' to every individual. make comments on their work... 'i liked that, john. i thought that could use a bit more work, mary. i liked it mostly, but that one color seemed off to me, bob'. folks generally want feedback on their work; ALL folks. post your images large enough to see. it's just rude to post tiny pics and then have 6 requests being made to you to post something larger. do and learn yourself! only criminals expect everything for free. and dont get the idea that i'm calling everyone that posts for help a criminal; i'm not! like i said, you pay us, exchange with us, by talking to us, giving us comments and thank you's on the work and by giving us images to practice on. so, i'm only talking about the rare few who think someone owes them the work. we dont. we expect to be paid and in the manner i specified. and, it never hurts to become a patron yourself. that's a great way to keep this site alive and the help continuing.

and, though not totally expected, i'd like to also see those doing the work commenting on the work of others. it's a great way to gain insight on one's own work by having those others doing the work give feedback. keep it courteous, but give some feedback to your fellow helpers. talk it up! and be genuine. if you dont like some aspect of someone's piece, say so and maybe give some tips on how they could make it better. and, even more importantly, perhaps, is tell them also what you do like! give the good with the bad. only giving the bad will soon see someone dropping into apathy thinking that they cant do anything right. so, always be sure to say what you did like!

and, there's one last thing i'll say here; know your target audience. if you do critque someone's work, take the time to figure out how long they've been doing this sort of work. i try to do this whenever i comment on someone's work. nitpicking some new person's work can drive them away in a hurry. if you suspect they are new, just make comments on one or two major items and give them advice on how to fix it. and be sure to comment on what they did right! on the other hand, if someone's been around for a while, be a little more fussy. the trick is to steer them always towards doing better, but within the scale of where they currently are in skill. if you go too far beyond that, you'll tend to overwhelm them and they'll likely give up. but, if you can lead them to that next step they need to take, and they can see how to get there, chance are they'll indeed get there and everyone gets better. going too far beyond their current scope and skill levels will tend to just drive them downhill with that heavy, old feeling of being crushed by a rock.

so, what i'm saying here is something like the old school system where the teacher taught the oldest kids and the oldest kids then taught the next younger and so on down the line. some of you have been around for a while and i'd love to see you 'teaching the younger kids' yes, i know most of you are already doing that and i commend you for that. let's just see everyone doing that. so, when you post your work, post how you did it. or, post stages of your work. there's nothing like a picture sequence to show how a thing progressed to the final stage. i'd also love to see some video tutorials done for retouching. and another method is to do just a partial job to start and show that much. if the person learning can get and duplicate that, move on to the next stage. if they cant duplicate it, then something's been missed and you need to go back a bit and find what that is.

ok, this has gotten a bit longer than i originally anticipated, so i'll stop here. i'll just say this one last thing, i'm proud to be a member and moderator here and i'm proud of the folks that participate and help others here!

[Ziaphra]

Re: Posting Your Image and Works Etiquette

Oh how very well said! I for one, will be bumping this from time to time as it really annoys me too when I see you good hearted folks being used.

[Gary Richardson]

Re: Posting Your Image and Works Etiquette

Nice one Craig, bet your typing fingers are an inch shorter after finishing.

You've hit on a few things there that I think annoy most people, and which can so easily be redressed with a little common courtesy and thought.

• Post decent sized pictures.
• Acknowledge the help given by others.
• Give feedback.

[BillFrey]

Re: Posting Your Image and Works Etiquette

Good post.

I haven't been helping as much as I did (not that it was a lot) because of those reasons. Why help when there's little or no feedback. I've spent hours on a retouch/restoration and didn't even get a thank you.

It's not just at this board, it's the same at some other boards also.

I should note that I've also had nice replies too and was happy to help.

[Swampy]

Re: Posting Your Image and Works Etiquette

My "bone" is with people who come in new and ask the same question(s) that have been asked here over and over. They don't bother to search the forum first. Has anybody counted the number of requests from people about how to change the background?

Off my soap box.

[rab3rd]

Re: Posting Your Image and Works Etiquette

I am new to this forum so I cant really add much to this post other than to say I agree for the most part. Several of you have looked at and commented on my work and I am thankful. Some have even made edits when I didnt ask for them and thats fine too. I will say that sometimes I dont comment on the edits during the day because the inserted images are blocked by my work firewall. Then when I get home at night I forget to come back and see the edits. If they are links then I am good. Also since I am so new at this retouching work, I dont feel qualified to make any useful suggestions to most of the things posted by others. I am guessing that a lot of the "newbies" feel the same way. I guess my point is that there may be many reasons why feedback is not as frequent as most would like. I hope everyone does not assume that all the newbies are just takers because they dont comment to each and every person that visits their work. My mother always taught me that there are two sides to every story and until you hear both you should never draw conclusions.....Just my two cents worth, and it isnt reall worth that...;-)

[palms]

Re: Posting Your Image and Works Etiquette

Well said Craig I admit to going through a why bother phrase lately, and as such havent been contributing much ,but one nice comment has restored some of my faith
But i will put my hand up to not adding workflows much, as i think if someone was interested they would ask and start a dialogue of some sort
I do try and thank people and comment on there work( even though i find this hard to do .) and not as a all embracing one cause after all i am a "gal not a guy"

Palms

[mod3443]

Re: Posting Your Image and Works Etiquette

Hello everyone. I am still new. Lost my link when my computer crashed for a while but found it by accident today. Having trouble with posting a new thread so thought I would respond to this one. I agree with everyone's thoughts here. Nothing is quite so annoying as folks who are inconsiderate, thoughtless and ungrateful (Did I miss anything?) It takes so little to show real thanks instead of the half-hearted kind. I look forward to looking around and hopefully sharing. I am still learning the restoration process; using PSP 9 and XI. I for one truly appreciate all the work that goes in to the posts I see here. Thanks to all of you for your generosity!
Mary O

[lcramer53]

Re: Posting Your Image and Works Etiquette

How about something like this???.....

Craig – Thank you, you are a terrific moderator, always quick to respond to anyone having a problem by offering thorough, well-described solutions/steps. This “kid” learned her lesson and thanks you for bringing it to the surface and making me realize that I have been one of those “generic” thank you persons. No more. Thanks again Craig!

Ziaphra – Your photography and sketch artistry is so inspiring. How do you find time for art with six children! Thank you for sharing your expertise with us.

Gary – I have learned so much about computer problems by reading your responses to people having problems, AND I always pay attention to your restoration posts because I always come away with learning something new from you! Thank you for being here!

Bill – I think that I’m the one who didn’t thank you properly and comment on your restoration of my mom’s communion picture (Challenge #92). Being very new at the time of your rendition, I didn’t know about subscribing to threads and when I did finally respond through your pm to me, I think that I did one of those generic “thank yous” to everyone who had taken the challenge and I apologize. I don’t think that I know enough about restoration or retouching to make any meaningful, individual comments. To my untrained eye, “everyone” did a better job than I did, and even though I may have preferred one person’s rendition to another, I didn’t know how to politely put that into words without offending anyone. Now that I’ve given it some thought, I think that I wouldn’t have had to indicate a preference for anyone’s work, rather, respond to each individual and say something nice about their effort. Bottom line, I’m not good enough to offer criticism, but individual praise is just as important if not moreso. So, thank you for the massive amount of time it took to restore that picture, yours IS one of my favorites.

Swampy – Once again, here’s another senior member who is always ready to jump in and help anyone who needs it. I have learned a lot by reading your posts which link to tutorials; you always seem to know just where to find the answers… and just like your avatar, your responses are always “smiling”.

Rab3rd – I think you clearly defined what some newbies feel, even after they’ve been here a while ~ like me. Thanks for bringing it to light!

Palms – Ok, I came to RP wanting to learn about restoration (Challenge #92) but I became discouraged and started looking around here figuring it might be “easier” to learn other areas. That’s when I found your work. Ha! And that’s when I learned that there’s nothing easy about any of this retouching stuff. Your work is beautiful. Thank you for all of your participation here and sharing your tips!

Mary - You are so right about the generous amount of time that some people spend to respond to others’ calls for help. This is a fantabulous place. I’m lucky to have found it and I will be MUCH more attentive to responding to people.

[Swampy]

Re: Posting Your Image and Works Etiquette

Thank you for your kind comments, Susie. :-)

[lcramer53]

Re: Posting Your Image and Works Etiquette

You're very welcome Swampy!

[BillFrey]

Re: Posting Your Image and Works Etiquette

hehe, you got a smile from me, lcramer53

I actually wasn't thinking of that restoration, although it was one of the longest and most difficult ones I've done. We had our pm and I was pleased that you got so many nice restorations to choose from. I think your picture got more activity in the Challenges Forum than most others. Glad it turned out nicely. It's a wonderful old photo.

... and, your reply in this thread is heart warming.

Thank you!

[palms]

Re: Posting Your Image and Works Etiquette

Thank you Susie for your kind words and for putting a few things into perspective If i have helped or inspired just one person to enjoy this "hobby" then i am happy
Stick with both "it" and "us" cause it's a long coaster ride but we will all get "there" someday.

Palms
p.s. sometimes looks are decieving and things are easier than first thought

[lcramer53]

Re: Posting Your Image and Works Etiquette

Bill - Thank you. I haven't attempted my mom's picture again because I opted for practicing on pics that people post here and when I feel more confident, I'll go back and do my absolute best on that picture and hopefully be as good as you.

Palms - Well, you definitely have inspired me and I realize that in addition to my desire to learn, I have to learn a bit of patience too. Now, time to get serious, ...off to start Katrin Eisman's "Restoration and Retouching".

[Craig Walters]

Re: Posting Your Image and Works Etiquette

susie, you're welcome

i'm pleased and encouraged to see all the positive responses here. i woke up this morning and one of my first thoughts was, 'oh boy, i probably went over the top last night on that post'