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  • Historic Restore Project needs Help


    Dug Nelson suggested I post this here:
    I have an original framed 1906 photo of the 'Runes of San Francisco', taken from a kite (the 'Lawrence Captive Airship') high over Nob Hill. A copy of this photo is in the National Archives, but it is quite beat up with 3 fold lines. My photo is unblemished as new, except for the brown color changes of age.
    I do not want to sell it, or release a copy for others to exploit. I like the fact that I have such a treasure. Just see it restored for preservation, and pass it on to family. I am 81 with early Alzheimer's and trying to organize wile I can. Have PS4, and Coral suite. Trouble remembering how to use them and looking for help, trial and error would take more time then I may have left. Vi sable portion is 24" x 30", so appreciate will need to photograph it. Help here also.
    Have spent considerable time in site looking for relevant help, but not find. Hope you might lead me source if information I need.
    Your consideration will be greatly appreciated, Tom

  • #2
    Re: Historic Restore Project needs Help

    TW, Show us what you have, maybe some of us can do work as a group on it, I just don't know how bad it is til you show me.

    Chris

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Historic Restore Project needs Help

      Tom, Welcome to RetouchPRO Hope you enjoy your stay here and make lots of friends. have fun!

      Hope we can help you

      Do you have a flatbed scanner? if so scan it several times making sure that each scan overlaps some (so the individual scans can be put back together in Photoshop).. Scan in color at the highest resolution with everything automatic turned off.. (color adjustments, ICE.. dust/scratch/spot remover, brightness/contrast, etc... all OFF)

      Attach one of the representative scans here so we can better assist you..

      If you use Photoshop you can post fairly large pictures which are under 100k using the 'save for web' function in Photoshop as described here: Size, Quality and/or Format your Attached Images.. (Click here)

      How to attach Files/Images to your Posts or Threads: (Click here)

      If you want to post a larger resolution that is over 100K then you can host your image elsewhere and attach a link in the thread, but also please attach an under 100K version (so the thread remains useful in the future, regardless of external links).

      Other Hosts if you do not have your own site: ImageVenue.com (3Meg max, free) pixentral.com (2Meg max, free) photobucket.com (1 Meg max free, 5 Meg PRO) mediafire.com (100 Meg per file, free) post a link in the thread to the site that is hosting the larger image.

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Historic Restore Project needs Help

        Hi Cris, absolutely no doubt that the Group could do the job, and have fun with it. But the problem is that the print seems to be the only known copy other then the Nation Arcives. Lots of info on how it was taken on the web. Could be of great $ value. A glass negative plate of Ansel Adams was just found and valued at $20 MIL. If I put a digital copy up for the public, then copies go all over the place and what I have is no longer unique. Its not for sale, just want to save it if I can. Lived in HI and found it 60 yrs ago, way back up in Monoa Valley (just jungle then), in a collapsed shack, in the middle of a banana patch. All I wanted was the wood frame. There was a poster in it. When I took off the back, the photo had been turned around and used to hold the poster. Been in my den ever since. Just recently became curious about the ' Lawrence Airship' and discovered what I had. Just dumb luck.

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Historic Restore Project needs Help

          Tom
          Not sure how we can help you.
          Sounds like photoshop may be too difficult for you - perhaps you can find someone local to work with you (so you don't have to let the print out of your posession)?
          Is there a college or university close? I bet there would be a grad student or someone trustworthy that could advise you....

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Historic Restore Project needs Help

            Tom, scan the photo or take a picture of it with a digital camera. Crop a section of the photo which is representative of the faded or stained area. Post that section or sections here by attaching it to this thread. That way you will not be exposing the entire photo. Many folks here will be glad to offer suggestions or show examples how retouch it. Then you or one of your family members who can apply the same techniques on the entire image.
            Regards, Murray

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Historic Restore Project needs Help

              Originally posted by twtracy View Post
              Just see it restored for preservation, and pass it on to family.

              Hope you might lead me source if information I need.
              Your consideration will be greatly appreciated,

              Tom
              Tom, I have some feelers out... so, if and when I hear back from the Museum of Art staff that deal with old photos, I will get back with you about preservation steps to take...

              In the meantime... beware of fluctuations of humidity, it will give you problems with cracking and curling, and mold growth acceleration. The photo should be stored in a protective archival type sleeve and kept in an area where the temperature is around 60 degrees. Control the humidity in its storage by the use of whatever means is avaliable (Silica gel beads desiccant packed in a vapor-permeable plastic to control local humidity, might help here) Try to keep the RH at around 40%. The photo when displayed should be kept out of intense light--natural or artificial. Of course normal precautions like handling the photo sparingly with gloved hands making sure not to bend or crease it always applies.

              Now the question is... Do you want just the original preserved.... and/or... copied so the copy can be displayed and the original preserved and stored properly?

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Historic Restore Project needs Help

                i agree with OlBaldy. have a conservator look at it asap and make sure you preserve the original with whatever care the conservator recommends. you might also ask the conservator to do a digital scan and make sure they give you a copy and that they destroy/erase the scan from their computer.

                and, being that you dont wish to post a copy of the image here, you might point us to the national archive site where the other exists so we can see what you're talking about.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Historic Restore Project needs Help

                  I think this fits the criteria and might be the picture from the archives

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Historic Restore Project needs Help

                    that sure fits the description, right down to the four fold marks

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Historic Restore Project needs Help

                      Tom,
                      We certainly appreciate your giving us the opportunity to chime in on such a wonderful heirloom. I agree with the others on some points, but started differing on some of the next steps to take.

                      I feel there may be some benefit for you to do two things. 1. Get an informal appraisal by sending a photograph over the internet to one of the big named art houses. Hopefully, one that mentions they will do free appraisals if you give them first look. That's Ok. 2. Have a good local photographer take some very clean high resolution photographs of the image for your own personal preservation and keepsake purposes (you keeps rights to those photographs).

                      With an appraisal in hand, you can then determine a.) do you sell the image and let them take on all the preservation work; or b.) do you not sell the image and you must then take on the preservation work at your cost.

                      Preservation is not cheap at all. You could easily spend $2k to $10k to preserve an image that size, then $2k again every 5 years. So, unless you just can't stand to sell the image, you should sell it and keep a very good reproduction in your home for sentimental reasons. When inking the deal, you could also ask that your family be given origination rights to the image in all signage or plaques they post at the photo. They are going to ask you to sign away all rights, leans, etc, to the image. You will have plenty of opportunity to insert your request for origination rights.

                      Hope this helps and let us know if we can help guide you more on some of these other ideas.

                      Here are two links that may be interesting to read. They also contain other links to good conservators.

                      The American Institute For Conservation
                      Northeast Document Conservation Center

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Historic Restore Project needs Help


                        Gentleman, I am Overwhelmed and very Grateful for your responses. Yes, the project is to big for me. One of the big problems of dealing with AZ is Apathy. Have many hobbies and a great many unfinished projects. However your enthusiasm has lit a fire under my butt that is burning a hole in that blanket of Apathy. Thank you, you have given me a challenge.
                        The mind of an AZ is dying, the connection to memories and ability are being severed. However, the mind continues to create new memory cells that are ignored and just wilt, unless harnessed. There was a time that I could not dial the telephone. I discovered 'Plasticity' of the brain. The old brain is dyiing, so harness the new. Use it..or Lost it. Have BS & MS in computer science, but all is locked away. I use the computer to provide the projects to keep the mind challenged, active and functional. A person is told they have AZ, incurable, no help with cooping for them, friend & family takeover for the poor devils & they just gives up and deteriorate. What else can they do? I refused to let this happen. I have lectured AZ patients & caregivers, offering to help those who want to improve the quality of their lives. No one has ever accepted. This is certainly not the proper venue for such a lecture, But you will have family and friends who will get AZ. Encourage them to learn something they have never done. New learning creates new pathways & new memories. Also helps create new pathways to the old memories that had been lost.
                        So, I now have a most valuable new challenge. Have photo eqpt, 8 mg ram, CS4, lots of time to make and correct mistakes & figure things out.
                        Thanks again, will keep you informed.
                        Tom

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Historic Restore Project needs Help

                          The Museum of Art suggested this website for general care, and restoration of old photos... Care and conservation of old photographs along with the restoration page. Also, there are numerous other links on the site which can be very informative. They also suggested you seek out a conservator of photos in your area so that if anything is to be done, it can be done properly...

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Historic Restore Project needs Help


                            Hello Gentlemen,

                            Ref: Cris,
                            Sorry for delayed response, learning my way around a site of this type. Have never entered a group site of any kind before. You were the first to respond and I have been amazed with the response.

                            This update is for all who have so kindly responded, so perhaps you could spread the word, as I don't know how, yet.

                            I have decided to make available a section of the print for those interested. The condition being that they return to me a copy of their work, and the details of their changes. I can then learn by duplicating there schedule , until I can obtain the same results. They may keep the copy I had sent them.

                            To that end I tried unsuccessfully to photograph the print within frame: reflection. Then removed frame, removed matboard, attempted to remove print from backing expecting to find an ID of printer or framer. However print has bonded itself to the backing (age, heat, pressure, ?) and is quite brittle. I have taken snapshots for you and will post something tomorrow.

                            As was suggested I will begin to scan the print, as high res as possible. It is a scan that I will make available. Have had this scanner for some time but have never hooked it up, so will have a learning curve to get over.

                            For OlBaldy (fellow sufferer, keep covered or spend a fortune sending your dermatologist on several topical vacations)
                            Your Tip: “Scan in Color” Thanks, never would have considered it., as print is B&W. Close call.
                            Hawaii and now Florida so unable to overcome the high humidity and heat. My options are limited as I now survive on Food Stamps. At one time I had a considerable museum level collection oriental art and wood carvings. After turning them over to my daughter, she had the painting professionally preserved. We gave no thought as to the value of this pic. I kept it simply because I liked it. As I had found it, it was free and If foolishly never added any additional value to it. Intend to now turn it over to her for safe keeping. Many great suggestions, thanks again.

                            Ref: tbergphoto.
                            Appreciate your concern. Important that I work it out myself, as explained prior. Much obliged, Tom

                            Ref: mistermonday.
                            Have adapted your excellent suggestion, as noted above. Took me awhile to accept the sharing, but it is a fair exchange. I never imagined that there would ever be such interest. Mahalo.

                            Ref: Kraellin
                            You found it, good hunting. Suggest that you Google the “Laurence Captive Airship” and see how they took the pic. Quite a feat in 1906 considering they used kites and a rare 19 inch focal length DAGAR lens made in 1905.
                            This is a dramatic example man positive progress:

                            “In 1905, George R. Lawrence, a photographer in the Chicago area, captured the attention of the US Army and Navy with his methods of aerial photography. President Theodore Roosevelt, fresh from the Spanish-American War, requested the US Army and Navy ask George R. Lawrence to demonstrate his “Captive Airship” method of aerial photography for potential military uses”

                            “After demonstrations to the US Government, both on land and from ships, the Navy report indicated that Lawrence’s methods had promise and the US Government should acquire rights to the concept and further develop the technique for military use.
                            ”Lawrence, however, continued to improve a “train of kites” system and had his “Captive Airship” working when the 1906 San Francisco earthquake struck. Using a sequence of kites and guywires, a camera platform stabilized with three outstretched booms, and an electrical device to trigger the shutter, he was able to take some of the now famous aerial panoramic photos of San Francisco in ruins after the earthquake and fire. “
                            "In 1900, he built the world's largest camera to take a photograph of the Alton Limited locomotive, owned by the Chicago & Alton Railway. The camera weighed 1400 pounds (640 kg) and used a 4.5′ × 8′ glass-plate negative.

                            So gentlemen, tis all for now. Aloha, Tom

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Historic Restore Project needs Help

                              Originally posted by twtracy View Post
                              Gentleman, I am Overwhelmed and very Grateful for your responses. Yes, the project is to big for me. One of the big problems of dealing with AZ is Apathy. Have many hobbies and a great many unfinished projects. However your enthusiasm has lit a fire under my butt that is burning a hole in that blanket of Apathy. Thank you, you have given me a challenge.
                              The mind of an AZ is dying, the connection to memories and ability are being severed. However, the mind continues to create new memory cells that are ignored and just wilt, unless harnessed. There was a time that I could not dial the telephone. I discovered 'Plasticity' of the brain. The old brain is dyiing, so harness the new. Use it..or Lost it. Have BS & MS in computer science, but all is locked away. I use the computer to provide the projects to keep the mind challenged, active and functional. A person is told they have AZ, incurable, no help with cooping for them, friend & family takeover for the poor devils & they just gives up and deteriorate. What else can they do? I refused to let this happen. I have lectured AZ patients & caregivers, offering to help those who want to improve the quality of their lives. No one has ever accepted. This is certainly not the proper venue for such a lecture, But you will have family and friends who will get AZ. Encourage them to learn something they have never done. New learning creates new pathways & new memories. Also helps create new pathways to the old memories that had been lost.
                              So, I now have a most valuable new challenge. Have photo eqpt, 8 mg ram, CS4, lots of time to make and correct mistakes & figure things out.
                              Thanks again, will keep you informed.
                              Tom
                              Yeee!! HAAAAA!! Three cheers for you Tom! HOOT! HOOT! HOOT! Keep on Keeping On!! Way To GO!

                              Positive outlook deserves positive feedback, You are an inspiration to us all!

                              Keep up the good work.... You Da Man!!

                              Comment

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