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  • Burn And Dodge Problems

    I've had issues trying to use burn and dodge to cover up facial blemishes instead of using the healing brush. Most of my images are of non caucasian people. When I try to dodge on a person skins it ends up mutating into weird colors like orange or red even though the complexion is fine.

    How does one create flawless skin on dark skinned people WITHOUT using blurring, cloning or the healing brush and simply relying on dodging and burning without the colors mutating?

    Ivan

  • #2
    Re: Burn And Dodge Problems

    You will probably find that the dual Curve method works best for this. After you've moved the composite curve up or down, you can of course control the Curve colour channels until you get exactly the tone you want. You can also Group a Hue/Saturation adjustment with the curves and move the Hue slider.

    Another solution is to use an Overlay layer, for Burn you may like to sample a color and then darken it taking out some saturation. Non white skin is sometimes more difficult to make sure colors don't go wierd I agree.

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    • #3
      Re: Burn And Dodge Problems

      Originally posted by ivan watkins View Post
      I've had issues trying to use burn and dodge to cover up facial blemishes instead of using the healing brush.
      I would suggest that there is a good reason for this: You're using the wrong tool for the job. Dodging and Burning, whatever flavor of it you prefer, is best for fine tuning all those myriad irregularities in tone that need to be tweaked this way or that to bring the whole surface into a uniform effect. It's not great for gross shifts in tone and the complexity of any given blemish is far more work than you want to deal with, given that by their nature, blemishes produce both lights and darks that cause them to stand out from their surroundings. Moving in close enough with dodging and burning is theoretically feasible, but unnecessary, since the healing brush will do most of the heavy lifting with a fraction of the effort, usually with no residual clutter.

      How does one create flawless skin on dark skinned people WITHOUT using blurring, cloning or the healing brush and simply relying on dodging and burning without the colors mutating?
      I'll resist getting into a detailed discussion of D & B here; one, because Markzebra offered an intelligent reply that should give you some good ideas to start with, two, because I think you need to revisit the healing brush and figure out why it's not working for you.

      A third option, similar in technique to D & B, can be effective when you have areas of general blotchiness that don't really respond well to healing and are too large or numerous for D & B. Take a couple of readings of your skin tone, one of a representive area of blotchiness, one of nearby smooth skin that you want to match. In a curve adjustment layer, plug in the numbers for input and output in each channel, then mask the whole thing. Now paint white into the mask the same way you would in a Dodge/Burn layer or mask. It requires the same subtlty as D&B, but by definition, you avoid the unwanted color drift, and you can cover a fairly wide range with one curve, bringing darker (or lighter, as the case may be) patches into line with the surrounding tones.

      Don't try to do everything with one tool either. So you dodge & burn and you find you have some irregularities left over. Hit them with the healing brush. Try a targeted curve. Then go back and do some more D&B. Each technique is a tool to be used as needed, not a one size fits all solution.

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      • #4
        Re: Burn And Dodge Problems

        Originally posted by NimfabebeAida
        Dodge and burn is not the key to remove blemishes. U may use it , but I think is harder. Clone, copy, heal, patch but leave the doge and burn to shadowing and lights.
        IGNORE THIS ADVISE.

        there is no one way to do anything. If while dodging or burning the skin changes color, change it back the way you want it. D&B is not the magic fix for all and the only thing involved in skin work. they'd take all the other tools out of PS if that were the case. You do it until it looks right, however many steps it takes.

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        • #5
          Re: Burn And Dodge Problems

          Hi

          Is there any particular reason you don't wish to use clone/healing tools?

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Burn And Dodge Problems

            If you are referring to me, I'm not opposed, however solely using clone and healing rarely looks good - just mucked up pixels.

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Burn And Dodge Problems

              I meant the original poster, I just wondered if there was a specific reason he couldnt use other tools.

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              • #8
                Re: Burn And Dodge Problems

                Originally posted by DaveSpanton View Post
                I meant the original poster, I just wondered if there was a specific reason he couldnt use other tools.
                How long have you been at Corbis? I started my retouching career there right out of photo school at the headquarters outside of Seattle.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Burn And Dodge Problems

                  Ivan, yes there is a way - LAB is the color space that separates color from luminosity. You can dodge and burn without appreciably shifting the color.
                  Try converting your image to LAB mode. Add a new layer filled with 50% gray and set the blend mode to Overlay. Alternately use a soft Black or White brush at very low opacity to burn and dodge.
                  Regards, Murray

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Burn And Dodge Problems

                    Hey Guys thanks a bunch for all the advice. I actually love the healing brush especially when resampling a lot. However, on this forum I've heard some of the purists say that D & B is the way the pros get perfect skin that still has the original texture. Therefore, I was trying to "learn" how the alledged "pros" achieve this by using only two tools.

                    In a nut shell I think that the healing brush is a life saver.

                    Thanks for all the suggestions and guidance.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Burn And Dodge Problems

                      also keep in mind, the pros use this method along with pro models, pro makeup, pro stylist, pro photography, etc.

                      if you're just messing around with your digital pics from joe schmoes bday party, healing brush will suit just fine!
                      Last edited by KR1156; 10-12-2007, 11:20 AM.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Burn And Dodge Problems

                        Originally posted by NimfabebeAida
                        It's my opinion so it's no up to u to say if it's right or wrong. I said it takes a lot more if u do it with dodge and burn, and if there is a faster way it should take it. There are more ways of doing the same thing in Photoshop.
                        It is up to me to say how I see it. I looked at your work and there is a reason you are looking for work... I'm a professional. I know right from wrong and am qualified to make the distinction. I also wish to stop the bad advise from spreading for the benefit of those who wish to learn.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Burn And Dodge Problems

                          Originally posted by NimfabebeAida
                          Don't be this agressive
                          Dont be this passive aggressive.


                          See, i shouldn't tell people how to behave either.
                          The only people here that can actually censor Ant's posts,
                          are the mods. And so far, from what i know they
                          let him be.

                          I personally am not offended by Ant's approach and
                          actually appreciate his directness without sugar coating
                          anything.

                          I also appreciate a lot of the input from chris, edgework,
                          KR1156, etc, etc

                          Like with photoshop, everyone has their style.
                          You don't have to like them all, but trying to make
                          them fit your view of what's acceptable isn't fair
                          on everyone else either.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Burn And Dodge Problems

                            Actually the methods you use depends largely on resolution and sharpness. On high quality images you have to approach like a cosmetic surgeon suffering from OCD - but "if you're just messing around with your digital pics from joe schmoes bday party, healing brush will suit just fine!" as KR says is probably true. Theres no point is arsing around wasting time if theres no visible skin texture to begin with. For far away stuff or anything that even remotely out of focus its amazing what you can get away with, no point in taking 3 hours using D&B to do something that will take half an hours work, and achieve the same result.

                            Whats certainly out is any blurring or filtering whatsoever - just never works, and always looks awful, doesn't matter how you try and do it, using "clever" channel operations or whatever, it will always look retouched. Blurring destroys not just texture but also tonal shifts important to retain form, and the eye can always pick up on this.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Burn And Dodge Problems

                              i'm a newbie-white-belt in retouching. And I am greatful to find posts saying "this or that is BS if u want pro results"
                              i spent months blurring things off thinking i was doing it right until a post stated clearly, underlined and bold : no blur !!
                              Thanks to that i could improve, letting aside techniques that'd bring me nowhere near a retouching career.
                              Last edited by Hello_taipan; 10-13-2007, 06:19 PM.

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