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  • shumicpi
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  • j4str
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    by j4str
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  • szeryf1989
    Tricky pattern or what?
    by szeryf1989
    Hi Guys!

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    http://...
    02-25-2014, 03:23 PM
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  • Confused please help:)

    Hello. I have a question concerning the healing brush. When do you use it?? I get feeling that more and more people use it rarely and prefer the cloning tool. I watched a show with chris orwig and he used spot and healing brush a lot on small blemishes. But then i watched C.tarantino show and he preferred clone stamp tool. Because healing brush had soft edges, and there where some problems with inconsistent texture and you could cleary see that with a solar curve. Amy dresser was not a big fan of the healing brush either.
    So when do you use it?? is it only when dealing with skin that have no texture to bring in texture to that area? Do you never use it on acne?

  • #2
    Re: Confused please help

    ..... I usually use the cloning brush first, and then the healing brush afterward to clean up a little.

    But like most tools in Photoshop, I don't think there is one better tool; it just really depends on what you're more comfortable with using.

    It's not so much the tool you use, but how you use it? Erm, yeah.

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Confused please help

      Everything makes more sense when you clone and heal on a frequency separates image. There's a very specific use for each tool. It's not about using one or the other. It's about using both, each for a different purpose.

      By default, cloning will clone everything, and healing will clone only an autoradius high pass version on a contrast mode.

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      • #4
        Re: Confused please help

        Rust, the clone tool is a100% copy of the area you sample. Often the area from which you copy has a different brightness than the area you wish to repair and it sticks out like a sore thumb.
        The healing brush copies from the good area you have sampled however it also matches the texture, lighting, transparency, and shading of the sampled pixels to the pixels being healed. As a result, the repaired pixels blend seamlessly into the rest of the image. The problem is that the healing brush can do a really wonderful job but it can also make a pretty big mess. You don't have full control of what it does so some people don't like to use it. However, with a little practice you will discover how to predict how well it will do. There are situations where both tools will give you the same results. As Flex has pointed out, its not about using one or the other but both where appropriate.
        Regards, Murray

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        • #5
          Re: Confused please help

          Thanks for the reply guys. As you said m.monday I`ll just have to practice to predict the outcome, and learn when to apply the different tools. Flexmanta: i`ll check out how to seperate frequencies. Read a degrunge tutorial here, and i will study it further. Thanks

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          • #6
            Re: Confused please help

            For photo restoring, I tend to use the heal tool a lot more than the clone tool. But as mentioned before, the healing tool and the clone tool have different purposes. The healing tool can really mess you up if it isn't used properly, or in the wrong place, such as near a sharp transition in colors. However, the soft edge allows you to have better blends, where it can give you nearly undetectable repairs. The healing brush also takes more practice to understand the complexities of what it can do. But if you can master it, it is well worth the effort. This is one reason, people with often start with the clone tool, and then do the final touch up with the healing tool.

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            • #7
              Re: Confused please help

              Thanks for the reply Dave

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Confused please help

                I watched Tarantino's latest tutorial too, and it is quite apparent for skin work that the old school clone stamp tool coupled with a soft light layer of dodging and burning is the way to go for high-end results. But the catch is, is that he was cloning with a brush size of 3 pixels or something super small like that. It seemed like it took him 4+ hours to do the initial clone stamp skin cleanup. And probably 8+ hours to do the dodging and burning on the skin. He doesn't blur the skin to smooth it. He doesn't add noise or a high pass filter to bring back texture--he doesn't have to. He cleans the skin up, like someone transferring a bowl of rice, a grain at a time, from one bowl to another with chopsticks (very detailed, slow, and deliberate).

                Most people don't have the patience or desire to work on an image in such a pain staking way. You could blaze through that image with the healing brush, do some quicker tonal adjustments, blur the skin and add back texture in 20 minutes if you are fast. But his results are amazing and I am going to start giving them a try personally. I would like to get into higher end retouching with my photography and I have an obsessive compulsive bend to me, so it's a good fit.

                BTW: I've completed Chris Orwig's retouching series and he does address the dodge and burn method briefly (dodging the highlight on a blemish and burning in the shadow on that blemish to remove it). He framed that technique as something that some high-end retouchers do, and found it ironic that the high-end techniques used very old PS tools.

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                • #9
                  Re: Confused please help

                  Hi Kevin, i also uses a very small brush when cloning and D/B around 3-4 pxl. And it obviously takes a lot of training to master D/B on a soft light layer. A tip i found very helpful from Chris tarantino is to zoom out pretty often. Way to many times i found my self working on an area on 400% zoom for many hours , and when i zoom out it looks like plastic. But i am determined to learn this technique and also have an obsessive compulsive bend (finally it`s usefull) so i invest A LOT of time to do this. BTW: I`ve also completed chris orwig course It`s a good starting point. Have a good day

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                  • #10
                    Re: Confused please help

                    Originally posted by kkamin View Post
                    Most people don't have the patience or desire to work on an image in such a pain staking way. You could blaze through that image with the healing brush, do some quicker tonal adjustments, blur the skin and add back texture in 20 minutes if you are fast. But his results are amazing and I am going to start giving them a try personally. I would like to get into higher end retouching with my photography and I have an obsessive compulsive bend to me, so it's a good fit.
                    When you're being hired by a client its not a matter of one's patience or desire but what the client limits you to, sometimes time or budget constraints will hinder on how you approach a retouch, the final uses will also change the way you retouch, if its for just one scale let's say a billboard you don't have to retouch as much as you would a magazine cover.

                    Regarding the clone tool as the "way of the high end retoucher" is not really what I opine. Just because a professional likes to use one tool instead of the other doesn't mean that its better. The key here is what YOU like better, in the case of your example Mr Tarantino likes to use the clone tool. That doesn't mean the healing tool is bad.

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                    • #11
                      Re: Confused please help

                      Originally posted by Cuervo79 View Post
                      When you're being hired by a client its not a matter of one's patience or desire but what the client limits you to, sometimes time or budget constraints will hinder on how you approach a retouch, the final uses will also change the way you retouch, if its for just one scale let's say a billboard you don't have to retouch as much as you would a magazine cover.

                      Regarding the clone tool as the "way of the high end retoucher" is not really what I opine. Just because a professional likes to use one tool instead of the other doesn't mean that its better. The key here is what YOU like better, in the case of your example Mr Tarantino likes to use the clone tool. That doesn't mean the healing tool is bad.

                      I totally, absolutely agree.

                      As long as you get to the desired/requested results, it doesn't matter which or how many tools you use independently of what Guru-X or Guru-Y uses... What makes their work so special are their talent, dedication and years of practice not the specific Tools they use!

                      That said, not that it matters much (I am no Guru) but I feel much more comfortable with the Heal Brush first set to 'Replace' then to 'Normal' ... but, again, it's only a matter o personal preference.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Confused please help

                        I don't think the healing brush is 'bad', and I use it all the time; it is a quick and efficient tool. Plus I can't bill people 15 hours of retouching for a single image at this point in my career.

                        But it is undeniable that the healing brush is not as seamless as using some other techniques. The healing brush does not create perfect matches is transplanting texture and creates a slight softness around the brush strokes. When analyzing an image with a solar curve, these textural mismatches are as bright as day. I've been using Photoshop for 11 years and consider myself quite advanced with the program. Up until I watched Tarantino work, I would have thought using the old school clone tool to retouch was ridiculous. But he turned my thoughts about the tool on their head.

                        And again. I understand the normal way of retouching skin is to use the spot healing brush and healing brush to clean the skin up, even out tones with dodging and burning on a soft light layer, blurring the skin with some type of blur filter and reintroducing texture back to the skin.

                        But I've seen the light. Time permitting, there is a better way to retouch skin that doesn't require using blur filters and creates amazing results. I guarantee clean beauty ad shots in magazines, where you can see every one of the models pores does not use the healing brush very much and definitely does not blur the skin to smooth it.

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                        • #13
                          Re: Confused please help

                          Personally I think using the a solar curve to "check on your work" is overkill (not to mention that at first your eyes scream stop), reality is that your client will rarely care if you did your job "correctly" by checking it with a solar curve. I say that its good to know all the ins and outs of different techniques so you know what to use. I haven't been up to date on the latest advertisements, but last I knew there are still major brands using blur and not keeping the skin realistic. As I said even if "you've seen the light" your client is the one who will decide if its OK to go the route with just D&B or go use different techniques that blur the skin.
                          I would recommend that you also research on frequency separation, from what I have seen is the "next best thing" since D&B http://www.modelmayhem.com/po.php?thread_id=439098 quite a read...

                          Also this "normal way of retouch" doesn't exist, if you find that the clone tool is all you need, go ahead and use only that. The thing is when someone is "lost" its better to give a broader opinion in order to give someone various options and make the decision for themselves. "Absolute answers" aren't always the correct ones.

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                          • #14
                            Re: Confused please help

                            Thanks for the link!

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