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  • #16
    Re: arranging layers

    "If it's a low radius sharpening move I'd save it for the end and put it at the top of the stack"
    As simple as it may seem.. this is where I get "stuck", I want to add f.eks. a high pass at the top without merging anything, is that not possible?

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    • #17
      Re: arranging layers

      what are you going to run high pass on, if not pixels? Where will you get the pixels from?

      I wonder if you mightn't be confusing a stamp with a merge. A merge is subtractive, it flattens down your pixels and adjustments into one, without of trace left of the individual layers that comprised it. A stamp is additive, it creates a flattened additional layer above all the pixel and adjustment layers below. So a merge tosses your individual layers, a stamp just duplicates it into a single composite layer above the individual layers.

      Thus, you can run a filter or such on your stamped layer, then mask it so that the filter shows only the stamp/composite layer, and reveals the original non filtered layers below, etc.

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      • #18
        Re: arranging layers

        Sounds like I am interested in the stamp? How do you do that?

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        • #19
          Re: arranging layers

          you already know. cmd+opt+shift+E

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          • #20
            Re: arranging layers

            So once I have done DB, I am not able to simply go back and do structural changes right?
            So it's best to finish all the moves before carrying on (liquify/free transform)
            I prefer to leave it until the end.. I guess it is a bad idea..

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            • #21
              Re: arranging layers

              Originally posted by Flashtones View Post
              you already know. cmd+opt+shift+E
              But that merges everything just like flattening?

              I guess there IS no way of bringing pixels back on top of adjustments without locking everything..

              Guess I can stop looking for that one then..

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              • #22
                Re: arranging layers

                it depends on how complicated your file is, and how local your adjustments.

                lets say your shot is a headshot with a hand in frame. lets also assume you have from bottom to top in the layer stack: (1) your original background layer, then (2) a clone layer, then (3) a D&B layer, then (4) some global (non masked) adjustment layers for contrast and color, plus (5) a highpass sharpening layer up top.

                lets also assume you're totally happy with the shot except you'd like to warp the hand a bit, perhaps to thin the fingers. what you can do in that case is to turn off layers 4 and 5, click on layer 3 (the D&B) to activate it and do the cmd+opt+shift+E stamp move to turn layers 1, 2 and 3 into a single composite payer that you can liquify, or make a selection of the hand and do cmd+shift+c to copy layers 1+2+3, and then cmd+shit+v to paste the composite of that selection above and warp/liquify that. Then turn back on your global adjustment layers (4). Then delete layer 5 because it was made with pixels that are no longer in that position, do a new cmd+opt+shift+E at the top of the layer stack and run highpass on it for a new layer 5.

                But if all your tonal/color are masked, and any warping/transforming/liquifying below them will make their masks out of register, you'll have to adjust their masks to fit the new position of the hand.

                Or, you include all those adjustment layers in your stamp (layers 1+2+3+4), so that when you warp it all gets warped together. I'd still choose to keep the final sharpening layer separate though and redo it after the warp.

                (and my comments are sharpening really pertain to final sharpening. Sometimes you'll want to sharpen local areas like eyes or diamonds, etc, separate from the rest of the image, and I'd probably include those as pixel layers.

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                • #23
                  Re: arranging layers

                  Originally posted by looby View Post
                  But that merges everything just like flattening?

                  except that you can mask it, or delete it, or run a filter on it, etc. use as much or little of it as you need.

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                  • #24
                    Re: arranging layers

                    I don't understand how merging the DB layer into the pixels layers will leave the DB layer fully flexible and reversable?

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                    • #25
                      Re: arranging layers

                      It's not, it's just that the entire stamp layer is an additional layer than can be removed in part, or or in whole, as needed.

                      I guess the short answer is that there is no way to transform your pixel layers below your D&B layer without altering the registration of the D&B layer to them. You already know this. I'm only trying to give you some options for dealing with that reality.

                      Lets put aside D&B for a moment and let me ask you something. I'm going to assume that you clone/heal before you D&B, and I'm going to assume you do this cloning on a separate layer from your original/background layer. So say you have a portrait shot that includes a hand in frame. And to this hand you did some cloning, and now you want to transform the hand, how do you do it to both the background layer and the clone layer so that they stay in registration with each other?

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                      • #26
                        Re: arranging layers

                        Tell you what, here's an option you might like (I think it might require CS6 or above). It's not how I would do it as a rule, but if you've really got a lot of work invested in a particular file it might save your butt.

                        Put your whole file into one folder/group; your original and all the way up the stack. Right click on the folder layer and turn it into a smart object, then liquify the smart object. The liquification is applied to the entire image, but if you need to make changes underneath the liquify you can double click the smart object and go in and make changes, save your changes, and the liquification is reapplied above.

                        Maybe others have better ideas, that's the best I can do ya.

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                        • #27
                          Re: arranging layers

                          Originally posted by Flashtones View Post
                          It's not, it's just that the entire stamp layer is an additional layer than can be removed in part, or or in whole, as needed.

                          I guess the short answer is that there is no way to transform your pixel layers below your D&B layer without altering the registration of the D&B layer to them. You already know this. I'm only trying to give you some options for dealing with that reality.

                          Lets put aside D&B for a moment and let me ask you something. I'm going to assume that you clone/heal before you D&B, and I'm going to assume you do this cloning on a separate layer from your original/background layer. So say you have a portrait shot that includes a hand in frame. And to this hand you did some cloning, and now you want to transform the hand, how do you do it to both the background layer and the clone layer so that they stay in registration with each other?
                          I just ctrl.J on top of the cloning layer and carry on transforming..When you say "stay in registration" you mean that the background layer is also transformed? But do I want that? and why?

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                          • #28
                            Re: arranging layers

                            Originally posted by Flashtones View Post
                            Tell you what, here's an option you might like (I think it might require CS6 or above). It's not how I would do it as a rule, but if you've really got a lot of work invested in a particular file it might save your butt.

                            Put your whole file into one folder/group; your original and all the way up the stack. Right click on the folder layer and turn it into a smart object, then liquify the smart object. The liquification is applied to the entire image, but if you need to make changes underneath the liquify you can double click the smart object and go in and make changes, save your changes, and the liquification is reapplied above.

                            Maybe others have better ideas, that's the best I can do ya.
                            Thank you, I appreciate your help!
                            That is great advice.. more than anything I just need to find a way to avoid ending up having to merge the DB layer, if it means making transformations first, so be it. I guess one could also just work on a complete different copy of the file, if something needed doing in the end..
                            I just didn't realize PS was so rigid, I thought everything was possible.

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                            • #29
                              Re: arranging layers

                              Thanks for asking the questions looby.
                              And special thanks to caravaggio and Flashtones for the answers.
                              I learnt a lot from this thread.

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                              • #30
                                Re: arranging layers

                                It's just very difficult being specific when we are talking in the abstract. I don't know what your layer stack looks like, or how complicated the transform you'd like to do is.

                                You can also explore linking layers so that they move together, and the Transform Again function, whereby you'd transform one layer then apply the Transform Again to apply the same tranformation on additional layers (ie the D&B layer).

                                I think you'd get the best help by showing us your layer stack and what you'd like to transform.

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