can i paint with Split Frequency

[mantra Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close mantra]

hi

about Split Frequency i use it for Healing and cloning ,but can i use it to paint ?
i mean with paint brush alt to sample a color and paint without (ruin) ruining details and textures

thanks

[skoobey Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close skoobey]

Re: can i paint with Split Frequency

Yes, on a bandpass. That would be a new layer in between high and low. Or you can just paint on the low, but then you're screwed if you mess up.

[klev Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close klev]

Re: can i paint with Split Frequency

I bet you I know the origination of this stuff better than any of you. It comes from a number of iterative edge finding techniques. The problem in using it in this way is that photoshop isn't well suited to editing on decompositions.

First off just dividing it that way won't protect your textures. If you don't believe me, just go onto your low frequency layer and make a significant curve or levels adjustment. You'll notice that it still affects the appearance of details. It's even worse with gaussian methods in the way photoshop is structured due to the amount of ringing produced by those filters. You can see this after applying gaussian blur across midtone values of different color compositions. You'll notice a bit of darkening between them rather than a border color that displays a mix of the two colors. this is because it's not perfect and can partly invert the colors if pushed too far.

Here's a good example of decomposition research. This stuff has better uses. I don't really see the appeal to painting like this. If I was going to do it, I would use something more like Krita, which is slightly better suited to that workflow.

Another method of achieving this would be an inverted convolution transformation. It still produces ringing though.

I thought about testing a linearized image with a Mitchell-Netravali filter, but I would use matlab or mathematica rather than photoshop.

[skoobey Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close skoobey]

Re: can i paint with Split Frequency

It can be useful and not noticeable if used to even out big radiuses here and there, obviously you cannot replace DNB by using this. And if you paint black or something ridic like that, your texture is going to look all wrong on top.

[Aladdin Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Aladdin]

Re: can i paint with Split Frequency

I experimented with it a lot, I was hoping for the results you are seeking, too bad, no, it affects texture no matter what you do. I thought I was slick! NO! either Photoshop is smarter or dumper than me!

I was told to "clip" the bandpass layer to the lowpass one, however, it did not make any difference, unless i was heavy handed, I use about 8% strength in the brush, still.

[skoobey Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close skoobey]

Re: can i paint with Split Frequency

You just don't understand the limitations. I even stamp at less then 100% opacity on both lower and upper layers in some instances, sometimes I paint up to 100 percent on bandpass layer...

Think is, for the next couple of hundred years computers won't know of "texture". It's just calculating pixels, that have been invert blurred on a set radius. Interaction between pixels on the above and below layer is what you're affecting when you paint on a bandpass.

[mantra Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close mantra]

Re: can i paint with Split Frequency

I bet you I know the origination of this stuff better than any of you. It comes from a number of iterative edge finding techniques. The problem in using it in this way is that photoshop isn't well suited to editing on decompositions.

FMitchell-Netravali filter, but I would use matlab or mathematica rather than photoshop.

I experimented with it a lot, I was hoping for the results you are seeking, too bad, no, it affects texture no matter what you do. I thought I was slick! NO! either Photoshop is smarter or dumper than me!

I was told to "clip" the bandpass layer to the lowpass one, however, it did not make any difference, unless i was heavy handed, I use about 8% strength in the brush, still.

hi
thanks a lot for the answers
slipt frequency is really much used and appreciated , at least what i see around the net

but so , when should i use it ?

[skoobey Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close skoobey]

Re: can i paint with Split Frequency

Be creative, explore what it does for you. It's not math, there is no singular recipe.

[mistermonday Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close mistermonday]

Re: can i paint with Split Frequency

hi

about Split Frequency i use it for Healing and cloning ,but can i use it to paint ?
i mean with paint brush alt to sample a color and paint without (ruin) ruining details and textures

thanks

When you use the conventional FS technique, you are isolating detail but if you examine the layers carefully you will see that there is lots of color on the HF layer. The formula of a convention frequency split Orig = HF + LF holds together until you start making changes to either layer. The changes to the pixels on either layer alter the formula. Sometimes the visual result looks better but other times it does not.

What you need to do is perform an asymmetric frequency separation which completely separates texture from color. Then you can paint to your heart's content in normal mode anywhere on the low frequency layer or non destructively on a blank layer set to Normal Blend mode in between the LF and HF layers. The texture will not be affected. Furthermore you can copy some texture from one area on the HF layer and paste it anywhere else of the HF layer and the color will not be affected .

You can play with the image at the link below to verify. PLEASE NOTE, the image is a .PSD and this example is has been prepared in LAB color mode so you will need to have Photoshop (any version) to open it and you can not convert this image to RGB. http://www.mediafire.com/download/k7...FS_Demo_MM.psd
Cheers, Murray

[mantra Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close mantra]

Re: can i paint with Split Frequency

What you need to do is perform an asymmetric frequency separation which completely separates texture from color. Then you can paint to your heart's content in normal mode anywhere on the low frequency layer or non destructively on a blank layer set to Normal Blend mode in between the LF and HF layers. The texture will not be affected. Furthermore you can copy some texture from one area on the HF layer and paste it anywhere else of the HF layer and the color will not be affected .
Murray

hi
i download the psd and i played
but how do i perform an asymmetric frequency separation ?
can i do it in rgb mode?
is there a step be stop to do it?
thanks

[Aladdin Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Aladdin]

Re: can i paint with Split Frequency

Post #4 at this link explains it: http://www.retouchpro.com/forums/pho...on-method.html

More search results: https://www.google.com/search?q=asym...sm=93&ie=UTF-8

You perform either method of FS in any color mode.

[mantra Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close mantra]

Re: can i paint with Split Frequency

Post #4 at this link explains it: http://www.retouchpro.com/forums/pho...on-method.html

More search results: https://www.google.com/search?q=asym...sm=93&ie=UTF-8

You perform either method of FS in any color mode.

thanks
i watched the Jonas's video
great video
but honestly i did not understand which layer should i use to paint ..
maybe the video is not complete

[mistermonday Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close mistermonday]

Re: can i paint with Split Frequency

hi
i download the psd and i played
but how do i perform an asymmetric frequency separation ?
can i do it in rgb mode?
is there a step be stop to do it?
thanks

I have a detailed step by step description. I will post a link when I get back to my desktop PC tonight.
There is a similar way to separate the color using 3 layers in an RGB image BUT it is not accurate and changing the color works differently and texture is not fully decoupled. The good news is that you can create the FS set in LAB as a nested smart object within an RGB file and it is fully compatible with the RGB image. This technique is also included in the file I will post tonight.
Cheers, Murray

[mistermonday Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close mistermonday]

Re: can i paint with Split Frequency

I just looked at the link Aladdin posted and it recall it well. However after posting it I discovered it is not accurate and recolouring does not work as well. That is when I came up with the LAB version. I will post the tutorial tonight.
Cheers, Murray

[mistermonday Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close mistermonday]

Re: can i paint with Split Frequency

Here is the link to the tutorial. It is a zipped archive with 1 pdf files and 2 psd files.
Please let me know if you have any difficulties downloading or opening.

http://www.mediafire.com/download/5u...orial_MM++.zip

Cheers, Murray