soft proofing settings help

[mantra]

Hi

i have my monitor and my print papers calibrated with x-rite device

may i ask a question about soft proofing settings?

i have read and googled around ,haven't find a good answers

1)
for color image , which settings should i keep enable ?
black point compensation ON
simulate paper color ON
simulate black ink ON


2) and for black and white?


thanks

[Shoku]

Re: soft proofing settings help

Hi

i have my monitor and my print papers calibrated with x-rite device

may i ask a question about soft proofing settings?

i have read and googled around ,haven't find a good answers

1)
for color image , which settings should i keep enable ?
black point compensation ON
simulate paper color ON
simulate black ink ON


2) and for black and white?


thanks

Black point compensation - on
I never use the other settings.

For Black and White - do you mean greyscale?

[skoobey]

Re: soft proofing settings help

Yes, you should calibrate your monitor. Beyond that... it's anyone's guess, and the only time you need to worry about color proofing is when client sends you a specific color profile.

Things get printed and published in all sorts of ways and you are not the one controlling the presses.

[klev]

Re: soft proofing settings help

Simulate paper color reduces your white in an attempt to match the look of the paper when illuminated by a specific type of light source. The paper color thing is really about matching the color of that paper base, and you would adjust the brightness of either the source or the display for a closer match. It is not as meaningful under arbitrary lighting.

[Shoku]

Re: soft proofing settings help

Using the Proof Setup with the default SWOP v2 profile is beneficial if you want to check for RGB gamut issues. Cmd + Y ( Ctrl + Y on a PC) is a quick way to take advantage of viewing your RGB file in CMYK without having to convert it.

That's all I use it for now.

As skoobey said, if a client sends you a specific color profile, or you are sending to a printer who offers custom profiles, proof setup can be used to review your files in these profiles before conversion to those profiles - If they send you a profile or offer one, you should use it if that color space will be the final color space.

[mantra]

Re: soft proofing settings help

Yes, you should calibrate your monitor. Beyond that... it's anyone's guess, and the only time you need to worry about color proofing is when client sends you a specific color profile.

Things get printed and published in all sorts of ways and you are not the one controlling the presses.

Simulate paper color reduces your white in an attempt to match the look of the paper when illuminated by a specific type of light source. The paper color thing is really about matching the color of that paper base, and you would adjust the brightness of either the source or the display for a closer match. It is not as meaningful under arbitrary lighting.

Using the Proof Setup with the default SWOP v2 profile is beneficial if you want to check for RGB gamut issues. Cmd + Y ( Ctrl + Y on a PC) is a quick way to take advantage of viewing your RGB file in CMYK without having to convert it.

That's all I use it for now.

As skoobey said, if a client sends you a specific color profile, or you are sending to a printer who offers custom profiles, proof setup can be used to review your files in these profiles before conversion to those profiles - If they send you a profile or offer one, you should use it if that color space will be the final color space.

Hi
i have monitor and papers calibrated
but the monitor is always more bright then the paper , so i need to print and compare the print with the monitor and increase the brightness to match my prints

could soft proofing help me in this?
avoid to make a print , and compare always with the monitor ?

thanks

[klev]

Re: soft proofing settings help

but the monitor is always more bright then the paper , so i need to print and compare the print with the monitor and increase the brightness to match my prints

Your monitor emits more light than the paper reflects when viewed under that lighting. Can your monitor's brightness be turned down without losing an excessive amount of contrast? If so you should profile your display at a lower brightness level and work at that brightness level. Results will be better. I think I told you the same thing about a year ago.

[skoobey]

Re: soft proofing settings help

Dude, what papers? You are talking about cheap ink-jet? DON'T LOOK AT CRAPPY CRAPPY ink jet.
We calibrate for consistency, then the print operator adjusts thingsin order to make them look good at their machine or process. Relax and stop proofing things with cheap printers, that will get you no where. Only way to print is plates, and there are a couple of consistent professional printers but they are in the 10000+ USD range.

[mantra]

Re: soft proofing settings help

Your monitor emits more light than the paper reflects when viewed under that lighting. Can your monitor's brightness be turned down without losing an excessive amount of contrast? If so you should profile your display at a lower brightness level and work at that brightness level. Results will be better. I think I told you the same thing about a year ago.

hi
good advise!
i tried to calibrate with x-rite @ 100 in the color munki preferences (so i had to decrease the brightness of my monitor) and i make a print , really better!

so soft proofing is useless, isn't it?

thanks Klev

[Shoku]

Re: soft proofing settings help

hi

so soft proofing is useless, isn't it?

Soft Proofing is not useless, if your monitor is set-up correctly and you know where your files will be printed, and have the printer's profile (if they offer one).

We print hundreds of orders everyday, and most of our clients send in files that are too dark because what they see on their monitor is too bright. If your system is setup properly, what you get on your inkjet should be close to the proper density. The only issue that would remain are colors that an offset printer can't reproduce - an inkjet has more color capability than your average offset press.

[andrewrodney]

Re: soft proofing settings help

Hi
1)
for color image , which settings should i keep enable ?
black point compensation ON
simulate paper color ON
simulate black ink ON

It depends <g>.
When you are editing an image with a soft proof on and hoping to make it appear as close to the final print you'll view next to the display, you want the simulation on for both. If you're comparing this to a print, you want to be in full screen mode, no UI elements shown which will not undergo the simulation and affect your perception of the soft proof.
See:

http://www.ppmag.com/reviews/200409_rodneycm.pdf

http://www.ppmag.com/reviews/200411_rodneycm.pdf

Black Point Compensation should always be on. It either fixes an issue with the mapping of black from source to destination OR it doesn't do anything at all because the mapping is indeed correct.

The same is true for B&W.

[skoobey]

Re: soft proofing settings help

No, soft proofing is necessary, but it is only necessary if you're getting paid for it.

[klev]

Re: soft proofing settings help

hi
good advise!
i tried to calibrate with x-rite @ 100 in the color munki preferences (so i had to decrease the brightness of my monitor) and i make a print , really better!

so soft proofing is useless, isn't it?

thanks Klev

I don't think the soft proofing tools available in photoshop are really ideal, but it isn't useless. Things like emulating paper base could be done to a lesser degree by setting your monitor up to match that paper as closely as possible, but it certainly wouldn't be ideal. It would be setting up your display for a single task by intentionally constraining its range in whatever way possible (might also introduce undesirable side effects that compress its range at the extremes).

I don't see soft proofing as useless at all. If you can get a good idea of how the print should look before you print it out, you will waste less ink, paper, and time.

[andrewrodney]

Re: soft proofing settings help

Things like emulating paper base could be done to a lesser degree by setting your monitor up to match that paper as closely as possible, but it certainly wouldn't be ideal. It would be setting up your display for a single task by intentionally constraining its range in whatever way possible (might also introduce undesirable side effects that compress its range at the extremes).

With the right product, that's exactly what one does. Enter SpectraView software driving an NEC SpectraView reference display system. Set contrast ratio to better simulate paper white, not max white or black the display can produce, build as many as you need for as many paper's you use. Switch on the fly in the software which updates the calibration in the panel and loads the ICC profile for that condition.

[klev]

Re: soft proofing settings help

With the right product, that's exactly what one does.

I suppose so, but I usually avoid advocating specific tools as an answer to this kind of question. I think the OP is still trying to understand the problem. Essentially the rgb color model considers quantities of light with respect to wavelength. Paper and pigments don't emit light. They reflect light that falls on them. The cmm then has to make some assumptions about the characteristics of that light to achieve a match or something close to a match.

Photoshop's version is a little more limited on both resources and (presumably) information about the light source than the one you mentioned, so it may not be as useful.

In both cases the goal is to pre-visualize how something should appear when printed. Recent inkjet generations don't have severe metamerism problems, so if it looks good under that lighting, The purpose of that match is to match context. For reference, if you view it later under fluorescent lighting, everything else in that environment will also be viewed under that same lighting. It should then appear (mostly) as intended. Viewing it under fluorescent lighting against a monitor that is balanced in a completely different manner would throw off that context, making it difficult to render judgement.

Note that this is a pretty high level overview, and you need to test any system to make sure it actually works as intended.