How long can we expect Adobe to update CS6 & LR4?

[YoungRetoucher]

I'm never going to subscribe to the Creative Cloud, I can't justify paying every month for my favourite tool without really owning it. At present I own Photoshop CS6 and Lightroom 4, and as far as functionality goes I could go on using that for decades to come, I have all the tools I need already. I do however have a couple of concerns:

- What will happen when Adobe shuts down the activation server and my hard drive dies on me and I need to install the software on a new hard drive but can't activate anymore even though I purchased a perpetual licence?

- How long will Adobe (if they do at all?) keep releasing updates for CS6 and LR4 so that the software can read RAW from the latest cameras? (NEF etc...)

If anyone has any answers, advice, workarounds or anything that might help please let me know!

[RobertAsh]

Re: How long can we expect Adobe to update CS6 & L

You're not alone. Regarding your questions:

1) Your software will work for 30 days as a trial, then it will shut down.

Your best bet is to stop saving anything in PSD format -- instead, save both a layered TIF and flattened TIF. That way you'll have your choice of non-Photoshop programs that will read at least one of them.

Also, I'd start converting all your PSDs to TIFs, or at least your most valuable ones.

2) If Adobe follows their past pattern then all new RAW formats will be supported only in Creative so-called "Cloud" going forward.

One workaround (for now) would be do download the Adobe DNG converter, convert your RAW files to DNG, then work on them in CS6.

Adobe has kept its DNG converter up to date so far, but there's no guarantee they'll continue to do so.

Robert

[YoungRetoucher]

Re: How long can we expect Adobe to update CS6 & L

I usually convert my files to DNG as soon as they go into Lightroom and when I have edited them in PS I save them as TIFF but unfortunate fact is that both formats are controlled by Adobe, so who knows if they will really be useful in the future?

A friend suggested a workaround to the RAW format support issue: Shoot in TIFF (Many Cameras can do this, my Nikons can). However I have never worked straight from a TIFF, I don't know if this would be a good option. I usually do all my tweaks in Lightroom on a DNG and then switch to PS where I make a TIFF.

[YoungRetoucher]

Re: How long can we expect Adobe to update CS6 & L

I just received a message with a link, SOME good news at last, apparently Adobe has decided to continue selling boxed versions and perpetual licenses once LR5 comes out:

http://blogs.adobe.com/lightroomjour...ive-cloud.html

Thank -GOD-, Jesus H. Christ Adobe... Let's just hope this is true.

Assuming we can use Lightroom to convert to DNG or TIFF, Photoshop CS6 will serve for a long time, there is however the activation server issue if they do shut it down. Is there a workaround? (Legit since I own a PERPETUAL license) I was thinking maybe one could somehow back up the activation after activating Photoshop. How? Does anyone know?

Another possible issue is that it may not work on future versions of Mac OSX... What's the likelyhood of that?

Apparently they also dropped the price on Lightroom which now costs 60 bucks versus 150 bucks previously and you can get a 33% discount on top. Outrageous, I bought it a month ago at full price and now they're almost giving it away...

[RobertAsh]

Re: How long can we expect Adobe to update CS6 & L

Apparently they also dropped the price on Lightroom which now costs 60 bucks versus 150 bucks previously and you can get a 33% discount on top. Outrageous, I bought it a month ago at full price and now they're almost giving it away...

Be of good cheer, as the Lord said You did not pay full price. I paid $300 for my first Lightroom v1, that's what it cost when it came out. They only lowered the price to $150 when Lightroom 4 came out. For versions 1-3 it cost $300.

Also, this announcement is no surprise because Adobe never had Lightroom on a rental model and never indicated they'd move Lightroom to a rental model. Whether they'll continue producing Lightroom or not is anyone's guess.

There is no workaround if Adobe decides to shut down their activation server for CS6 and earlier. Unless someone comes up with a software hack.

You can create what's called an "image" of your hard disk. That is a snapshot that preserves your operating system and everything. However, if you change computers then all the drivers in your image get obsoleted.

Other than that, you can create a virtual machine image but that takes some technical skill and you need virtual machine software.

So for the vast majority, there is no workaround.

[RobertAsh]

Re: How long can we expect Adobe to update CS6 & L

Also, DNG has been Adobe's representation of having some kind of open format. Nice idea in theory but given the past behavior of IBM, Microsoft, AT&T and other monopolists none of the high-volume camera vendors adopted it, and now we see that was a wise decision by them.

That said, Adobe has until now kept up with new raw file support for older Photoshop versions with their DNG converter.

Unfortunately Nikon TIFF isn't a perfect answer, either. Apparently it's only 8-bit and pre-cooks some key settings just like JPEG does:

http://darrellyoung.blogspot.com/201...st-for-my.html
http://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/36916703

Even Nikon Support's forum discourages using Nikon TIFF. Shooting in RAW and converting to 16-bit TIFF would be better but I'd recommend researching some other programs like Gimp or CaptureOne or other lightroom / photoshop substitutes and see how many support 16-bit TIFFs in case you need to switch programs down the road.

So there's no pretty answer here. Photoshop Elements has gotten pretty powerful and support layers, so that may be an alternative. Assuming, of course, that Adobe keeps producing that product as well.

[YoungRetoucher]

Re: How long can we expect Adobe to update CS6 & L

Does the disk image technique work if the hard drive is different but the Mac hardware is the same? Has anyone tried this with Carbon Copy Cloner on Lion?

How long do they usually keep the activation servers online?

[andrewrodney]

Re: How long can we expect Adobe to update CS6 & L

Also, DNG has been Adobe's representation of having some kind of open format.

It is an openly documented format, just like TIFF. It's based on TIFF. And Adobe owns and controls TIFF.

Unfortunately Nikon TIFF

Maybe Nikon's implementation of TIFF, not Nikon's. Adobe owns and controls TIFF. Since they purchased Aldus.

[andrewrodney]

Re: How long can we expect Adobe to update CS6 & L

I usually convert my files to DNG as soon as they go into Lightroom and when I have edited them in PS I save them as TIFF but unfortunate fact is that both formats are controlled by Adobe, so who knows if they will really be useful in the future?

TIFF is about the best long term image format we've got and it's got a great history dating back before the release of Photoshop. It's an openly documented format, any software company can use it at no cost. There have to be hundreds of applications that can read a TIFF, certainly if you include legacy software that some people may need to run. Might as well keep layers, there's a flattened iteration there that a modern TIFF reader should handle and that along with a copy of CS6 should allow you to open and flatten if necessary for awhile should you have to deal with really old TIFF readers.

[RobertAsh]

Re: How long can we expect Adobe to update CS6 & L

It is an openly documented format, just like TIFF. It's based on TIFF. And Adobe owns and controls TIFF.

True, but manufacturers still need to support it in order to make it an adopted industry standard, and they haven't done that. Only Hasselblad, Leica and a couple of medium format back mfrs have, and combined they have pitifully small volume sales compared to any one of the major DSLR manufacturers.

Maybe Nikon's implementation of TIFF, not Nikon's. Adobe owns and controls TIFF. Since they purchased Aldus.

That's what I meant by Nikon TIFF - Nikon's implementation of TIFF, which may or may not be a standard one. Nikon support discourages its use, so maybe it is

Unfortunately, although certainly better bets than PSD after this forced-rental decision, the problems with DNG and TIFF are:

1) DNG is not being implemented at any reasonable scale - in fact, not at all by the top-volume camera manufacturers. That alone could be its killer over time. Plus there is no guarantee that the DNG formats from any given manufacturer are fully conformant to the core standard or to each other's implementations.

2) TIFF implementations are more widespread but still are not consistent.

a) e.g., some programs support layered TIFFs, some don't. Also, even in Photoshop you get a choice of TIFF options, not just one. Not all programs can read all of them, e.g. DxO Optics Pro.

b) Actually, all of the most popular camera RAW file formats are based on a variant of TIFF as well, but obviously they're all not implemented in the same way because they're all incompatible with one another. And incompatible with the mainstream TIFF flavors.

So TIFF (i.e. 8 or 16-bit LZW compressed TIFF that follows the original Aldus format) is the best rich format in the foreseeable future for professional retouchers, but unfortunately the most widely used formats tend also to be the lowest common denominator.

In fact, the most likely format to remain consistent and outlive all others -- is JPEG. So saving a high-quality JPEG of final productions along with a portable TIFF copy is not a bad idea.

[andrewrodney]

Re: How long can we expect Adobe to update CS6 & L

True, but manufacturers still need to support it in order to make it an adopted industry standard, and they haven't done that.

TIFF or DNG? What makes it 'an industry standard'? ISO adopted TIFF and DNG is in committee. Both formats are openly spec'ed and free for anyone to use (unlike PSD). Camera manufacturers will support DNG when either hell freezes over or photographers collectively understand the huge disadvantages of proprietary raw files and demand in mass, manufacturer's support saving a DNG in-camera. Just like they've done from day one with a JPEG. This isn't a technology issue, it's totally political.

That's what I meant by Nikon TIFF - Nikon's implementation of TIFF,

The only people who get to spec the TIFF implementation is Adobe. Either Nikon is following this or they are breaking the rules (or using private tags which I believe is possible in TIFF in which case, it's moot, only Nikon would understand what they did with proprietary metadata, just like DNG). Now as we both wrote, most raw files are based on a TIFF but they are created to their manufacturer's ideal, are proprietary and have to be hacked to be understood by everyone else (not the case with DNG, it comes with a decipher ring if you will).

2) TIFF implementations are more widespread but still are not consistent.
a) e.g., some programs support layered TIFFs, some don't.

Layers are proprietary Adobe processing technology. Another app that can read this data may preset it to you, you can't edit that data as you did in Photoshop. The flattened version (Baseline TIFF) is key here OR you move back to an Adobe process that understands blend modes and all the proprietary Adobe processing on a layer.

Bottom line is this: TIFF is I believe the most widely used and most archival and flexible image document file format. It's owned by Adobe. The same is true for DNG. If you fear Adobe, forget wide gamut, high bit data and layers anyway, save as JPEG. Personally I'd never do that, I archive everything as DNG or TIFF.

[Flashtones]

Re: How long can we expect Adobe to update CS6 & L

Robert raised an interesting issue regarding TIFF's different flavors. Is there a most universal variant, ie, regarding compression, pixel order, byte order, etc?

[andrewrodney]

Re: How long can we expect Adobe to update CS6 & L

Robert raised an interesting issue regarding TIFF's different flavors. Is there a most universal variant, ie, regarding compression, pixel order, byte order, etc?

The spec is open and further, TIFF 6.0 is really old! Dating back to 1992. You should expect any software product in recent memory to support a TIFF.

http://partners.adobe.com/public/dev...tiff/TIFF6.pdf

[Lena48]

Re: How long can we expect Adobe to update CS6 & L

I, too, will not be able to afford a monthly fee and I use Photoshop and InDesign. Is my only option going to be to go to a different app? What the heck can I use instead of InDesign? CorelDraw instead of Photoshop? I am very very unhappy about this development from Adobe. Have they any clue what they are doing to us (and do they care)?

[Flashtones]

Re: How long can we expect Adobe to update CS6 & L

The spec is open and further, TIFF 6.0 is really old! Dating back to 1992. You should expect any software product in recent memory to support a TIFF.

http://partners.adobe.com/public/dev...tiff/TIFF6.pdf

So you're saying that any app or platform that reads tiffs can handle all variants of tiffs equally? I'm not challenging that assertion, just making sure I read you correctly.