Printer Profile Curves

[mxgo]

I have PS Elements 2 and the "Hidden Powers" software. I would like to know if it is possible to add printer profiles adjustment curves to PS Elements. For example, I am into B&W printing and would like to try to various printer profiles like the "Paul Rourk" profile curves for VM inks.

If it is possible to "plug-in" printer adjustment curves in PS Elements 2, please provide the procedure in a step by step manner.

Thanks

[Richard_Lynch]

I am not sure how you might want to load the curves, and suspect some other problem in previewing, however, you can do this...In different ways.

What I would suggest, if I get the problem is that you create a file called Curves Library, and create and store curves that you plan to reuse there. It can be a tiny file. All you do is create the curve as you want it, then name the curve something you'll recognize and save the file (i.e., Curves Library). When you want to use the Curve again, instead of using the Load function (that is in Photoshop), just open the Curves Library, and drag that curve layer to the image where you want it to apply.

You can store as many preset curves as you want in your single library, so there will be no need to juggle a lot of files or remember where you left the curve you want to use.

If that doesn't solve the problem, try me again and we'll come up with another solution. I am not sure how the specific curves you are talking about are supplied, and if you can tell me more, I am pretty sure we can come up with a satisfactory solution.

[kudbegud]

Originally posted by Richard_Lynch
I am not sure how you might want to load the curves, and suspect some other problem in previewing, however, you can do this...In different ways.

What I would suggest, if I get the problem is that you create a file called Curves Library, and create and store curves that you plan to reuse there. It can be a tiny file. All you do is create the curve as you want it, then name the curve something you'll recognize and save the file (i.e., Curves Library). When you want to use the Curve again, instead of using the Load function (that is in Photoshop), just open the Curves Library, and drag that curve layer to the image where you want it to apply.

i'm not sure what you mean. the curves can be saved? then retrieved from the curve window? and draging the curve to your pic? i have to admit, i haven't opened the curves power tool yet.

my problem is in color accuracy when getting prints done. i got a free ICC printer profile from Dry Creek Photo to correct how the Costco printer uses too much magenta and darkens the pics too, and it helps to the most part but it's still off compared to what i see on my calibrated monitor. so i could do a series of curves for test pics and when i get a good match, use that curve as a custom ICC correction? this could be the answer to perfect prints! besides, i cant find where to install the ICC profile in elements, i go to Photobrush to do that final ciorrection before loading up a memory stick for a trip to Costco.

[Richard_Lynch]

so i could do a series of curves for test pics and when i get a good match, use that curve as a custom ICC correction?

Yes.

The idea is you would:

1. make the curves to correct a test image.
2. store those curves in an image called Curve Library by dragging the curve adjustment layer(s) there.
3. apply the curves by just dragging them into the image you want to print.
4. Print the image.

Again, I see a problem in the idea that a calibrated monitor is producing bad prints. Seems like a bandaide over a bull-horn gore. You might want to calibrate again. Also, if you are using regular copy or typing paper, you might want to see how a better paper behaves. The printer driver may have additional settings for paper type that you should not just ignore (it may not have them).

I discuss a lot of this at the beginning of the Hidden Power book.

[Steve Yeatts]

Sorry, but I don't understand

Hi, Richard. I use PSE2 and just bought 'Hidden Power ...' I have the same questions as 'mxgo' , the original poster. I bought some third-party b&w inks from MIS Associates. They consist of a black cartridge plus shades of grey. MIS also supplies some adjustment curves, that allow the image to print in various tones, from warm to neutral to cool. In RGB mode, one loads the supplied curves from the curves library to adjust the tone of the image.

The problem, of course, is that PSE2 does not allow one to load a pre-defined curve. The curve file is a binary file that I cannot read. I can't get your suggestion to drag the curve layer to work. When I try to drag the curves file onto the image, I get an error that the file isn't the right type. (Could it be that the curves file defines a curve layer, but is not a layer itself?) Anyway, it would be great if you have another suggestion. I really appreciate your follow-up and support of your product!!

[Richard_Lynch]

Are these .crv files or something created in PS? If so, forward them to me -- I can help you out.

If not, what are they? Are they to be applied in PS? Are they other curves applied in the printer driver? In other words, how do the printer instructions say to use them?

[Stephen M]

Originally posted by kudbegud
my problem is in color accuracy when getting prints done. i got a free ICC printer profile from Dry Creek Photo to correct how the Costco printer uses too much magenta and darkens the pics too, and it helps to the most part but it's still off compared to what i see on my calibrated monitor. so i could do a series of curves for test pics and when i get a good match, use that curve as a custom ICC correction? this could be the answer to perfect prints! besides, i cant find where to install the ICC profile in elements, i go to Photobrush to do that final ciorrection before loading up a memory stick for a trip to Costco.

Hi kudbegud, I do not use PSE but will try to add general comment where applicable.

* An ICC output profile for this inkjet printer would only describe one set of conditons - printer make and model/ink/paper stock/resolution. If your printer is not this make or model, or you are using different ink/stock or resolution than the profile describes, then you will probably not get results as intended by the profile distributer.

* Calibrating is only half of the ICC colour management story - one has to then characterize (profile) and then maintain the correct workflow etc.

* It is probably best not to think of ICC profiles as image adjustment curves or output transfer curves.

* ICC profiles are stored in the operating system, which the native OS colour management calls upon, as do other applications. Do a search for .icc or .icm profiles on your computer and place the required profile in the colour profile folder where your system software lives. The location is different for classic Mac, Mac OS X and for the different MS Win flavours.

* Applications can convert between profiles, not sure about the finer points of PSE though, but there are ways to convert between profiles which do not require image editing software.

* The perfect ICC workflow in this would be a monitor profile that truly reflects the monitors condition and an output profile that describes the true state of the printer for the reqd ink/stock/res. A simple conversion at print from the current profiles space to the printer profile would match what the softproof image shows on screen and the print would match this too.

Any hacks with curves means that this is not a 'perfect system'.

I am unsure of your workflow - if you want a deeper understanding of ICC colour management, then these primers are worth some study:

http://members.ozemail.com.au/~binaryfx/PSTV_links.html#I

Hope this helps,

Stephen Marsh.

[Richard_Lynch]

"Any hacks with curves means that this is not a 'perfect system'."

I'd tend to agree with that completely, but also don't know that a 'perfect system' is what you need if you merely intend to warm an image, etc. What my further suggestion was going to be was that you should not necessarily trust these curves implicitly to product the effects they suggest -- and anything they can do, you can too -- using Hidden Power, separations and curve applications.

However, I am also looking to help you get to the point where you can test whatever it is you have...and that seems to me to have been curves. If you can forward them, I can have a look and get you something to use.

[Steve Yeatts]

Re: Sorry, but I don't understand

Hi, Richard. Thanks for your willingness to help out with the curves question. Probably the best explanation of the curves I'm trying to use is the website where I got them:

http://www.inksupply.com/index.cfm?source=html/workflow_roark.html

I don't think I can send you the curves file as an attachment, but you can download them to see what they are.

Basically, you open a b&w image and convert it to RGB mode. The, you load the curve you want, based on the desired tone of the printed image (warm, neutral, cool, etc.). The image turns into wild colors on screen, but in the print it looks correct.

Thanks,

Steve

[Richard_Lynch]

SY,

What printer do you have?

These are PS curves, but I can give you a way to apply them.

Let me know.

[Steve Yeatts]

Re: Sorry, but I don't understand

Thanks, Richard. I'm using an Epson 1280 printer. It would be great if you have a way to apply the curves.

Steve

[Richard_Lynch]

Here are some curves from the website. The file is named for the sets and the curve layers are named for the specific curves. Just drag open the Curve file and drag the appropriate layer from the Curve file to the target image.

Let me know how it goes.

[Steve Yeatts]

It works! Fantastic Richard. Thanks so much.

Steve

[altaf]

Helloo,

i just got your book - and like the curves a lot - I'm in the same situation as Steve - and need to use PS Elements 2 for the same purpose, and am also a black and white photographer...

so, i downloaded the zip file, and it unzipped to 890-1280curve.psd, however, your post says that you have different curves there?

that's only one curve - so is there a way to get the other curves as well? am especially interested in the curves contained in :

http://www.inksupply.com/html/zip/1280ut.zip

and

http://www.inksupply.com/html/images/1280pc.zip

thanx

Altaf

[altaf]

Ok i understand how it works, figured out these are layers sorry :-)

so, would it be too much too ask if something similar could be done for the curves here:

http://www.inksupply.com/html/zip/1280ut.zip

thanx

Altaf