Just a little glitch

[2003blink]

I just got my HP book on Monday, and installed the tools from the CD. I did have the free tools already installed, and Lings UI with snap actions.

The HP install has hidden my snap actions, any quick tips on getting them back?

I had another small problem.

While trying to do the oceansun.psd photo, with the gradient map recolor project. Steps 19-30 on page 54. My Gradient Editor kept closing by itself before I could actually save the changes. This happened several times during the color picker stage at random, on different steps.

I ended up doing these steps several times as a result (not such a bad idea anyways). Has anyone else had this trouble? How can it be fixed? (OSX 10.2.x 1gig ram G4 800, Photoshop Elements 2)

Fantastic book! I may have to read it several times to get the full hang of things, but I can tell this is really going to get me headed in the right direction. Thanks Richard!

FWIW the first sections on color management options with PE2 finally cleared the air for me in this area, what a great help!

[Susan S.]

I run Richard's tools (from the book and HPA3 and the batch), and snap actions together quite happily. I installed Richard's Hidden Elements stuff first and then set up snap actions second - I'm not sure whether you'd have to reinstall snap actions entirely - I would have thought just re-running snap actions to generate the HTML menus (making sure you now include the menu item that points to the Hidden Power tools!) would suffice.

I can't shed any light on the gradient editor problem - never had that one myself (and I use it a lot).

Susan S

[2003blink]

Susan thanks!

I just changed the name of the index.html, like I did before I installed the HP "free tools". Ran Ling UI and just hit generate. This fixed me all up again!

[Lynn D. Green]

I had the same problem......had the Actions working and then installed Hidden Powers from the CD.....no more Actions......could you please supply more detailed info on how to get both working together? I'm fairly new at this program (PSE 2) and to downloading, etc so need details......thanks.....Lynn

[2003blink]

Lynn, I am on a Mac with OS X 10.2. The steps should be real close to what you have in Windows. There might be a short cut someone else could pop in with.

I am only guessing you have Windows...
Close Photoshop Elements, if its open
Go to Start->All programs
Right click on "Adobe" and choose "explore" on the drop down menu
(make sure you have "folders" selected so you can see your folders!)
Select the "+" next to "program files" and expand.
Navigate to your Adobe Photoshop Elements (PSE) folder. (root... not the shortcut)
Below that you will find" HTML Palettes".
Inside that you find "Recipes"
Inside that you find "index.html" <<<---change the name to "indexoriginal.html" (or what ever you want so you can remember this is the original index if you want it back)

In the same folder (HTML Palettes->Recipes) Start snapActions (snapActions.jar for OS X) I *think* Windows is just snapActions.exe

Hit the generate button.
Close the program.

This should fix you right as rain (at least it worked for me)

[Lynn D. Green]

Thanks so much....that seems to have done it!!!!

Lynn

[WendyW]

I have Elements Actions II installed and as soon as my book arrives I hope to install the tools from the CD. I check in here every day or so but sometimes have trouble even understanding the questions never mind the answers

So forgive me if my question sounds silly but I am very new to all of this ... Just what is Lings UI with Snap Actions?

Wendy

[pmarchant]

Wendy, as far as I can see it's a way to organise/play actions.

The homepage for the snapActions is http://www.geocities.com/rnlnero/PE2stuff2.html

It looks interesting, so I might install it

Cheers,
Paul.

[WendyW]

Hi Paul .... thanks for all the information. I have just been and checked it out and the package does look interesting, guess I will be installing it later today. Some of the actions sound good ... so far the only ones I have are the ones that came with Elements Actions II. I guess there must be others around that have been converted but I haven't been able to find them yet. Once again thank you for all your help.

Regards
Wendy

[Richard_Lynch]

I am really interested in having some feedback. The fact is, the snap-action thing doesn't allow you to run anything that Hidden Power can't. The ability to arrange the actions is probably a benefit, but, while it is more involved initially, I assume it is better to customize HP.

So...while I admittedly grudge the existence of snap-actions (I was working with the people who released that after assuming they were working with me, and not independently...when i found they released the materials -- to my surprise), I don't understand why people need both. The fact is, snap actions can't run my enhancements. both interfaces will run the same actions.

So...someone please explain to me what the draw is?! I might consider enhancement to Hidden Power Actions if I really understood why people were interested in snap actions in the first place...All it is is a derivative (um, directly) from my Hidden Power Actions releases.

I can probably do whatever you want...and perhaps go a step further.

Thanks!

[WendyW]

Hi Richard,

Well I'm fairly new to everything having only had PEII and your Elements Actions for a couple on months or so. As I said in my previous posting I had been looking around for some other actions to play around with but had not managed to find any. I installed Snap Actions simply to try out the actions that were available with it... I must say that I found it easy to install the actions and liked the way you can organise the menus. Things I don't like about snap actions are the use of the recipes palette or the way that the actions appear on the menus .... I prefer your use of the Welcome screen and the way your menus are presented with a preview facility.

I am sure that there must be actions around ready to be installed in Elements Actions but I just don't know where to look for them ... can anyone point me in the right direction?

Hidden Power is on order at the moment so no doubt I will be asking lots of questions later.

[2003blink]

I struggled to make some Photoshop Actions work with the HP interface. The instructions to use the interface, given in the readme files, were outdated. At least some of the functionality I expected wasn't available, or the instructions required more knowledge than I had. Simple follow the instructions didn't pan out.

In either case...
snapActions must use converted files.
HP Actions must use converted files.
You must use the full version Photoshop to convert these actions for PSE2, or have access to a text editor that can read the action file, to extract the actual action name, to build the html or xml index link.

I asked both Richard (HP) and Ling (snapActions) to help me with the particular actions I wanted. Ling responded within a few hours with the menu and actions ready for use, that took me all of 30 seconds to install. I have used them and am really happy with how they work.

I still can't figure out how to use the HP interface, to install the actions, but Ling did give me all the information I should need to install these in the HP interface. I wanted to use the HP interface, and tried to understand it first. I will have to learn some HTML first, and that takes yet more time... I just want to fix photos.

What snapActions achieves is simplicity to use what I call one trick ponies. Click a button and get a result, simple and easy. It was because of snapActions, that I bought the HPE book. I had heard about the book before, but didn't know if I needed anything in it. snapActions gives a PSE user a taste of the full version Photoshop, and HP gives even more control and tools over snapActions.

Richard your material is extremely deep and intense. There are very few practical application exercises given in the book, to drive in the lessons or uses of the tools. Many times a mention is given for all the possibilities, but very few examples of these. As I have pointed out on several occasions, not even your editors and beta testers found all the errors. The lack of mention of these errors has to let you know that either they are not important errors, or NOBODY gets it, and are afraid to say anything. Maybe a little bit of both...

The multi complex steps you ask the reader to understand, are not easy to memorize or even comprehend in many cases. I KNOW you understand your material, but most of us don't have 10 years of image editing in Photoshop under our belt, to apply to your methods and techniques. I need a follow up book with practice tutorials, and examples of uses, so I can understand why I would need the tool at all. The expectation is that the further you read in the book, everything will come together in practice as each tool builds on the next. NOPE (because...)------------------>
Each paragraph in the book, should be treated as a book on its own. Each step and tool requires further study in application. A single sentence can contain a months worth of material to study.(you have to locate this extra study material in locations other than the book) Read a little, practice a lot. Hard. (very very hard)

snapActions are simple to use, easy to understand and install, you get immediate results, and can see right away if its something you will use again... Easy.


This feedback is my own opinion, and subject to change. I hope others will provide their feedback too.

[Richard_Lynch]

Thanks for your pointed critique. Just to clarify a few things:

"Each paragraph in the book, should be treated as a book on its own."

Well, that would be nice but I also have to produce something that is practical in the eyes of the publisher -- or they won't publish it. The book at the 330 page limit, I thought, was already expensive at $40 (cover) and the program is only $30-$99 (depending). Will people be willing to spend more on a book than on the program? My understanding of the market would suggest not. Expanding the book by that much will take quite a long time, and the program only has so much shelf life. I'd never get a version of the book out before the next version of the program. There is a practical side to the condensed presentation of the materials. I trust my reader to be interested and diligent...and refuse to treat them as 'idiots'. I may go pretty far the other way sometimes. This is not a beginners book.

About actions...I have tried to suggest that I'd be willing to convert actions so that you can install them in pre-defined packages. Regretfully, I don't have a ton of time to search them out, and was hoping some people would flag interesting actions for me so they would be converted. I don't remember you posting any actions for me to convert...Things that are deemed 'impossible' by your testing with snap actions probably are not -- all it will check is if the action will run as is. I am sure i can make them work and make them available for everyone.

At one point I tried to work with Ling -- in fact thought I was when suddenly she released an earlier version of her interface to my surprise that i thought we were working on together. She then took a mention I made of using an XML solution to create her newer product. You might imagine I am not forthcoming with a lot more information when I can't be sure what will happen with it and that it will bring about competition with my own products. I regret that things went in the direction they did, as apparently she has a lot of time to devote that I just can't (turning paragraphs into books and all like I am...). I have a better way to do it all, but regretfully not the time. Your point about 'easy' is well taken when it comes to the actions...All I need is the time to put together the other solution. However, I wonder if this is really the whole thing for everyone. if that's it, I'd maybe make it a priority. Do you see making up pre-assembled packages as a viable solution for now?

About 'Easy'...I have heard it takes 7 years to learn Photoshop and be proficient. It isn't easy. From response I get from other readers, it isn't likely that 'nobody gets it'. In fact there are several who appear regularly in this forum that seem to understand everything fairly well (Paul and Susan, for example). If you are looking for a point and click book to make effects and such, Hidden Power is NOT that book, no excuses. There are other books that are.

About the examples...I can't be clear which seem impractical to you. In fact, most in the book were real-world examples (or imitations of projects I've had to do). Let me know which you consider impractical and why, and if you have images you want to study, post them, and we'll get to work! I'd be glad to do this as it would provide some meaningful feedback and a better forum for basing questions and endulging techniques.

So, to sum:
• Is it enough to provide pre-defined packages?
• Can you point to actions you want converted?
• Can you post images you want to work on?

I'm greatly interested in the feedback.

[2003blink]

Richard,
I sure didn't suggest that your examples were impractical. Not at all impractical! Fine examples, nothing wrong with those given. They are very practical examples.

The problem is there are not enough examples. Not enough tutorials to explain and show the various uses of the tools in combinations. Most of us need to see how these work together, to solve the most common requested tasks.

Its like the game of chess, when you are starting out, you just don't see all the combinations of moves that lead to victory. Photoshop can be many times more involved than chess.

<b> Elements users are beginners and need examples/tutorials. I have heard it said, that when it comes to Photoshop, we are all beginners! What seems easy to you is beyond the grasp of most of us. I fully understand your opinion and attitude not to treat Elements users as "Idiots". Still I AM ignorant. This is WHY I seek further understanding. No one can see what you see exactly, unless you show them exactly what you see. I want your actual opinion then... right? Not what *I think* your opinion is.

Explaining your point of view as to the use of these tools you provide, by example, is not treating anyone like an idiot! It is educational to ANY level of user!</b>

1. A great addition to your tools, would be a tutorial section, on how to use HP with Photoshop tutorials. Or HPE converted tutorials/recipes. Then explain step by step (with screen shots) how to install more Actions. "In this line, in this folder inside this folder... type..." (spell it out PLEASE!)
I have several index.html files.... which one do I edit???? Where do I type the link?
2. Let me see the instruction when I click the link for instructions to install Actions would be a great place to start!
3. Easy to install HPE Actions <b>LIST</b> would benefit the HPE user.
4. snapActions is helping you sell your book. This is not competition, this is free advertising. All HPE needs is better instructions to install Actions.

Bottom line...
Make installing Actions into HPE a simple pleasure. Link me to more Actions and tutorials for HPE.

[Richard_Lynch]

Oh, so we agree then...

I agree not enough examples, and there never can be (not without jumping away from publishing). THAT is why i'd prefer to see images you are working on every day. I can some up with all sorts of cool things, but what are you having trouble with on which images? To some extent you still want me to do more work (which is OK with me) but i want you to do some too...All I need are the images. What are you trying to fix but can't?

Competition is, I guess, the wrong word. Lack of unity is a better phrase. Having more than one interface is confusing to users ("Which do I need?" "What order do I install?" "Can this one do something the other cant?"). Just by creating those questions it is cumbersome and, in a sense, competing for my attention that would be better spent elsewhere. My point: it isn't necessary.

One thing about the idea that you are worried about how things work is probably entirely why the book is like it is. People use Photoshop tools like CMYK and Healing and let them be magic. Myself, I always wanted to know hows and whys...even with the magic tools...because nothing is magic. It is all a calculation or a clever application of one thing or another. If i don't know what is going to happen when I use a tool, I am experimenting and playing, not applying. Knowing and understanding are more difficult, but the best results don't come as an accident.

It is very much a chess game. for every move there is a counter...and there are combinations...more combinations than I can enumerate. That is why chess is a fascinating game. You have many possibilities afte the first move, or else the game would be over when it started. You analyze positions, and admire a game. You do the same thing with a correction.

I have lots of things planned. all I need is the time to do them. Certainly tutorials in the interface, and then some. I am not disagreeing at all with you there. part of the problem can be limitations with what i can do in the interface (instructions is a good example, and so is lack of relative paths so I can open example images)...but i think you are right on target when you suggest more in the interface to help while you are working along. It was something I was keen on when i first spied the Recipies palette.

Thanks for your time, again. I'm digesting it.